Back to the darkside

joemac wrote:

Really? All things being equal, there's a $13,378 difference in net cost of ownership? Not simply considering resale amount in a vacuum.

seems odd but that's what's coming up. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in purchase price as they are both around 45-50K new, fully loaded

the laramie is the top trim like the limited tundra, right? is seems so on there site. right now Ram doesn't even have that good of interest rate, toyota has 0.0

can it be that bad? if so, wow....

found this as well, true car pricing data (for the front end compro)

tundra crewmax limited

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/toyota/tundra-4wd-truck-pricing/2013/70B475FA/

Ram crew laramie

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/ram/1500-pricing/2013/AB827E62/

they have been selling for around the same it appears

Here is NADA as well

tundra

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2010/Toyota/Tundra-CrewMax-V8/Limited-4WD/Values

Ram

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2010/Ram-Truck/Ram-1500-Pickup-V8/Crew-Cab-Laramie-4WD/Values

closer but, it still a bunch of money.

sucks, I was actually starting to consider one of these but don't want to take it ass 3-4 years from now when I want something else or a new one

I paid $41,590 for my 2012 Power Wagon and I got $39k in trade for it with 2800 miles on it. Now the miles will be higher because it will be driven until the new truck is delivered.

hmm...

i was actually starting to really think about a 2013 ram when you can get the 8-speed, but this resale has me gun shy now. The reason I am in such good shape to trade is the tundra is worth a ton used. I don't want to buy a Ram and then be screwed in 3-4 years because it loses too much of it's value

I am trying to figure this out...The new tundra looks nice too but it's not out until late this year and they won't have good deals at all on brand new models I would think. Also, the Ram has a ton of features

things to think over anyway

I'm looking forward to test driving that Ram 1500 diesel in the fall. I can't imagine forking out $40k for it though.

All the new prices I'm seeing online do not include incentives. Ram currently has a variety of stackable incentives available.

No idea feature wise how the Ram Laramine 4x4 stacks up against the Tundra Limited 4x4.

Using NADA exclusively with no added options.

New Tundra Limited Crew max 4x4 Invoice $41,598, MSRP $44,890
New Ram Larmaine Quad cab 4x4 Invoice $41,388, MSRP $44,920
*Above doesn't include any incentives

2012 Used Tundra Limited Crew max 4x4 10k miles
Rough Trade $36,975
Average Trade $38,850
Clean Trade $40,400
Clean Retail, $44,075
*used market will factor value of incentives

2012 Used Ram Larmaine Quad cab 4x4 10k miles
Rough Trade $32,000
Average Trade $33,825
Clean Trade $35,325
Clean Retail $38,575
*used market will factor value of incentives

Also factors are manufacture price increases on same or like vehicle, real inflation is 7% to 9% annually, thus further skew results.

Simply supply and demand, total market availability of Ram vs Tundra new and used is different which will skew pricing.

Significant changes or updates to the vehicle platform between years will likely lower the value of the previous generation vehicle.

Just from my personal experience, others are likely different. I've found most of what I've run across on the internet used car prices to vary greatly when comparing to my actual transactions.

Trading my Silverado, dealer offered $8600 trade in. Now if I take it to a different market where trucks aren't every other vehicle, the value might be higher.

Nada has it qualified as
Rough trade, $9,350
Average trade $10,500
Clean trade $11,450
Clean retail $14,600

Sold it privately for $15,200, paid $34,XXX, $MSRP'd for $38,XXX.

KBB's values are around $500 less per criteria from what I'm seeing.

If someone can drive a vehicle for three years and only be out $5k, there's no real reasons not to do it unless the enjoyment or capability of the other vehicle has some offsetting properties.

Your gonna get the Ram far cheaper up front than the Tundra too. So the numbers are a bit skewed right from that.

Mine listed for 37495 and I paid 27 and change for it, before TT&L. Toyota just doesn't discount that much, which contributes to them holding their value later on. But you pay up front for that.

I'd imagine true cost of ownership really isn't all that dramatically different when you consider all of this.

at Joemac

with your example, the Ram lost ~5K more value than the tundra did, in a year, WOW

that is what I'm talking about, keep it 3-4 years and it's worse.

i know that each deal will be different, but one has to use something to start with for research and so far, I'm getting pretty put off by the numbers..

I guess if I know these numbers, I would have to get the Ram for 5K less than the tundra on the front side? I doubt that would happen

pup wrote:

Your gonna get the Ram far cheaper up front than the Tundra too. So the numbers are a bit skewed right from that.

Mine listed for 37495 and I paid 27 and change for it, before TT&L. Toyota just doesn't discount that much, which contributes to them holding their value later on. But you pay up front for that.

I'd imagine true cost of ownership really isn't all that dramatically different when you consider all of this.

Wow, 10K off?? yea, toyota won't touch that.

I guess if I want to take a real shot at this I would have to go into a Ram dealership and then the tundra dealership, and I would have to get the Ram for WAY less than the tundra. I would then pick up the difference on the front side rather than the back.

What I am trying to do here is keep as much "equity" in the truck as possible so I can trade every few years (3-4) and still be able to drive loaded rigs for about 500 a month (that amount is what we a lot ourselves for owner vehicles). Right now I only owe 13K on this one and I got a letter from the local dealer wanting to buy it for 30-32, so I have a real nice down payment without any extra cash out of my pocket.

What I don't want to happen is buy a Ram get 3-4 years from now, owe that same 13-15 K and it's only worth 20.

this is making my head spin but I don't want to paint myself in a corner later, LOL

Maybe you should look at leasing? Just a thought...

Breathing Borla wrote:

at Joemac

with your example, the Ram lost ~5K more value than the tundra did, in a year, WOW

that is what I'm talking about, keep it 3-4 years and it's worse.

i know that each deal will be different, but one has to use something to start with for research and so far, I'm getting pretty put off by the numbers..

I guess if I know these numbers, I would have to get the Ram for 5K less than the tundra on the front side? I doubt that would happen

I guess it can't be stated enough, the invoice and MSRP, do not include incentives nor indicate actual transaction price.

Without even trying, using my company's Ford X-plan. A truck of which I have intimate knowledge stickers for $53,950 including destination, no TTL or tax. With incentives applied price sits at $46,350. There are two additional incentives I'm attempting to leverage one for $750 which looks likely and another $1000 if I don't use Ford Credit financing. Since Ford credit is offering 0% I might forgo the additional $1000. At worst case its $7600 off MSRP the way it stands.

Summary while resale can look fantastic on paper, without knowing the actual transaction price and if we started at the same price or two widely different prices, it matters in the actual net cost of ownership between original purchase and selling or trade.

My Dodge MSRPed for $40020 back in 2010. I traded a truck a truck that KBB said I had about $5k in equity. I walked out the door paying $25k, that includes TTL. Guestimating $2k for TTL puts me at about $28k for the truck.

messing around with the build for grins. It makes you get two tone paint if you want to add bucket seats...

lame.

i wonder if you can get around that

Which trim level are you selecting initially?

I am looking at a crew cab 4x4 laramie, with bucket seats.

i just don't think I like the two tone look but I don't want a bench seat in a freaking 45-50K truck

firsts things first though, I have to go drive one

the new 8-speed is going to have to impress me as the last Ram I drove the trans sucked but that was back in 09 and was a smaller engine model 4.7 I think

I was able to build a solid black 1500 4x4 Laramie crewcab with leather trimmed bucket seats...

bones wrote:

I was able to build a solid black 1500 4x4 Laramie crewcab with leather trimmed bucket seats...

hmm.

the sites seems to be acting weird, sometimes it kicks you over to two-tone, other times it doesn;t

I said screw it and emailed a home-run offer to a dealer using truecar.com plus some extras I wanted. We'll see what happens.

likely, they will say no way, but that's ok for the first round.

if I buy this thing and it's a POS, I'm blaming all you guys from PUTC that said the tundra was crap, LOL

I'd say the 6-speed in mine is the most pleasant surprise so far. That and the power. I didn't drive an 8-speed, but from what I hear, they are solid too.

Nice truck Jason. I drive my boss's 3500 srw crew cab 6 speed cummins only thing I don't like is the shift interlock that makes you use the clutch. I'd consider a laramie or well equipped SLT next time(if I ever have to) buy a new truck. I have yet to sit in a decent equipped new Ford but I dislike my friend's 08 with buckets and seat/console in the middle. I'd take a Dodge over that, perhaps even a GM. But I love my truck especially since I fixing all the stuff I've been able to get away with, and having stuff not so driveway friendly done even though I can do it myself, relaxing and resting up on my days off(sunday/monday) take priority when there is no side work.

I just got confirmation my truck is scheduled for production

erude685 wrote:

relaxing and resting up on my days off(sunday/monday) take priority when there is no side work.

Where did you end up getting a job at?

bones wrote:

I just got confirmation my truck is scheduled for production

Sweetness! Do you have a way to check its progress? Target week and day for production? ETA?

My dealer is providing me a weekly update that isn't much of anything. I did find a message board of which a nice person on there posts order updates when requested. The information this person posts is pretty good as it indicates all status changes/dates.

Yes, Ram has a website where it tells me what stage it is in and they send you emails as it moves along. You can find out more about your Ford order here: http://www.researchmaniacs.com/Ford/TrackFactoryCarOrders.html

joemac wrote:

bones wrote:

I just got confirmation my truck is scheduled for production

Sweetness! Do you have a way to check its progress? Target week and day for production? ETA?

My dealer is providing me a weekly update that isn't much of anything. I did find a message board of which a nice person on there posts order updates when requested. The information this person posts is pretty good as it indicates all status changes/dates.

Ford to the best of my knowledge doesn't have a site like the Ram one you referenced. That is nice tid bit Ram offers, just makes the experience better. Good for them for making the information available to customers.

Someone else referred me to the same web site you provided, thanks for that. I've downloaded the window sticker previously and have been tracking status changes, order submission, order acceptance, assignment week, production date using the internet forum service.

The waiting begins