Iran deal

So the Iranian nuclear deal has been sent to Congress to start the 60 day review period. But does the clock restart when they get the full deal or do the "side deals"  not part of the nuclear "deal"? What kind of wordplay is the WH going to use to try to say the keep the side deals in secret?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/22/susan-rice-admits-secret-side-deals-with-iran/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/world/middleeast/provision-in-iran-accord-is-challenged-by-some-nuclear-experts.html?_r=0

http://news.yahoo.com/americans-pack-times-square-denounce-iran-deal-233515707.html

This is all a game Obama is playing, when the mushroom cloud is raining fire down on Tel Aviv, our muslim President will just blame Congress and Israel.

The only thing this deal accomplishes is funding terrorism and insuring Iran gets multiple nuclear weapons.

Wait for it.

This is standard play to get crap shoved through.  Mike Lee two days ago was handed a 1000 page highway bill and the chamber vote was in 45 minutes.  They couldn't even get the bill printed out, much less read it in 45 minutes.  Mike said he's going to vote no on any legislation that they don't provide time to read much less comprehend it.

This same trick is used in all legislation and has been going on for 20 plus years.  Words that can be interpreted 82 different ways. This is done so on purpose, so that government can secretly operate the way it wants to.  The NSA spying and authorization, secret interpretations of sections, providing authority.  TPP and other trade agreements treated as top secret, even though there's no security classified context.  

It's not too far fetched at all to state there as been a coup.  Multiple layers of secret government grabbing power, authority, and money at all levels.

It's been two plus years since the general population learned the government is scooping up everything about your live and building and retaining a complete social and economic profile on every American.  What's been done with all the outrage?  Zero.

The Iran deal is easily solved.

Tell them.  We're going to patrol a few ballistic missile submarines in and around Persian Gulf, Gulf of Oman, Caspian Sea, and or the Indian Ocean.  If we get an early warning from satellites your preparing for launch, you'll be lucky to get your missile off the ground.  By my calculations you'll have about 6 minutes before your entire country ceases to exist.  It really is that simple.

The Israeli's have 300 to 400 nuclear weapons we gave them and all of our other military technology.  We give them $3.5 billion a year in US taxpayer funds funds to acquire all of our latest and greatest.  The Israeli's needs to be removed from the US tit.  They are a serious influencer of the 8h!t we get involved with over there.  Want to send our kids over there to fight and die for Israel?  No thanks.  

Maybe instead of taking all of the Palestinian land committing genocide of the Palestine people, they actually carve out some land and leave them alone.  Quit sending in bulldozers and taking more and more.  Novel idea.    If Mexico, said 100 miles inside the Texas border is theirs, I imagine a few Texans might want to go after the Mexicans.

Until we get over our interventionist mindset "As the world turns" we'll create more and more enemies, while going more broke than we already are.

Of all the countries in the world, I believe Israel should get the largest funding of any foreign government. They are IMO our only allies in the region. They spy on us, we spy on them. We need Israel as much as Israel needs us. We will never bomb Iran with this current administration, Israel for their own survival will. If we sent troops to Iraq and Afghanistan, how could we turn our back towards Israel?
We are giving Iran the green light to make nukes in 10 years, a country that has vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
While we give Israel military technology, we get technology back in return, it's a two way street.

The Israeli's attacked the USS Liberty in the Sinai Peninsula in '67 for hours trying to sink it, they managed to kill 34 US sailors injuring 160+.  The Israeli's intent was to blame the sinking on the Egyptians, so the US would attack Egypt. This is how the Israeli's operate.  Always looking and leveraging the US to carry out their agenda.  

Then went you have the testimony of the commander from the aircraft carrier who was sending alert aircraft to defend the Liberty, have two separate attempts called off from the DoD, something is a foot that isn't desirable.  Plus add in the expendability of the US sailors.  What kind of leverage does Israel have over the US to us the Liberty sinking as justification for US to attack Egypt?  That's a seriously dangerous, deadly and unhealthy relationship.

Fast forward to 911 and the five dancing Israeli's. I don't know of too many true allies that operate like this.  These are just the incidents we know about.

We'd be much better off without providing for Israel's agenda.  Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?

How many US military lives, or American lives should be expended for Israel?

How many US military lives, or American lives should be expended for Israel?



Israel keeps the region from being over run by Arab terrorists. We sent U.S. solders to die in Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Lebanon. Why? U.S. secret agenda. The real reason will never be known, "it was in the interest of Democracy", no f'in way. Without Israel Russia will own the mid east in short order with its trading partner Iran.


Was the USS Liberty a spy ship, and was the ship known to be American?
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship. At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship. Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity, though others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.

In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$22.5 million 2015) in compensation to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to Liberty herself plus 13 years' interest.

The U.S. knew of the concentration camps of WWII yet did nothing about it at the time as it wasn't of a military value. Are we guilty of letting all those people die? No, it was war, just as the U.S.S. Liberty was in a war zone.

The USS Liberty was flying the American flag the Israeli radio transmission confirmed it many times.

Was there terrorism run wild in Iraq before we arrived?  No.  After a decade of war it flushes.  Was there terrorism run wild in Libya before we arrived?  No.  Libya is now a failed state controlled by terrorists.  Afgainistain is that ever going to work?  No.  We're trying to instill our way of government onto a people who simply don't operate that way.  Tribes, tribal territory areas, very primitive comparatively.  Yet we're insistent they comply.  

Syria had a civil uprising.  Only to be made worse by McCain and crew arming the "moderates" Christian villages have been in the south and now west have been slain many times over.

ISIS pops up out of nowhere.  The FSA and AlNursaFront weren't really that moderate it seems.  We're so full of ourselves.  Where's McCain promoting all of our war success?

What does the US get out of Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Lebanon?  A bunch of dead soldiers and a lot of debt.  Least the weapons manufacturers get profits eh.  After such US invasions countries and people if they didn't have motivation to hate us, they do now, after we occupy their land and bomb their countries for years on end.  Spreading democracy one bomb at a time go USA.

That's one hell of a justification for a lot of people dying.  Easy to commit others to these theaters when its someone else dying.

The US occupies, sends military men and women to die, has bases and wars in all these countries.  Yet Israel keeps the region from being overrun by terrorists?  Did the US soldiers take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, or protect Israel?  Seems the US is the the only one spending and dying.

No we are not responsible for "letting those people die" that's like blaming law abiding gun owners for a thug who commits murder.  The perpetrators of the crime are responsible.

The Liberty was in a very benign area, there were sailors sunbathing on deck, not close to any artillery, shells, aircraft or any military active area.

Israel new the ship identity, they had made multiple passes over it all day.  Men on the Liberty monitoring the Israeli pilot transmissions testified to the Israeli radio transmission detail and context they were relaying knowingly identifying a US flagged ship.



The US sure pays a hell of a price in monetarily and in human treasure for this particular allie.  The USS Liberty is just one of the many cover-ups of motives that are still to this day secret.  Much like the many other lies that the American people are constantly feed today about conflicts today.

A danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate Americans interest to those of any foreign nation." - Admiral Thomas H. Moorer

Iran deal?  When was anything ever negotiated between countries a "deal".  Wasn't aware anything of such existed.  Treaties?  Yes, but not deals.

Israel could lay to glass Iran with just 10% of their nuclear arsonnel.  Not sure why we need to get involved.  Our insurance policy comes by placing a couple ballistic missile submarines off Iran's cost.  Tell them we're doing it.  It's they're play, we told them the what the outcome would be if they even tried such.  Simple.  But simple doesn't guarantee profits for the MIC, so the power structure will conjure up a way for more death, and war with lots of money being spent.

Was there terrorism run wild in Iraq before we arrived?
No, Saddam was just killing the majority population and torturing them. Was Saddam not a terrorist to his own people?


Do we not send Black OPS people around the world daily to kill our enemies in their own countries?


The Liberty was a spy ship, if we though there was a ship spying on us during a war, we would have done the same. The Liberty was off the coast of Egypt during the war, we do not honor territorial waters when we want to shoot down enemy planes as we did to Libya during that time period.


Put up with all the terrorists attacks that Israel has had to face, I think they hold back too much to control collateral damage. If any country deserves our support it is Israel. We need Israel to take care of Iran as this country doesn't want bad optics if we did it ourselves.



No one, not even the top brass know what goes on in the mid-east. The elected officials control what information they want the people to hear. Whats the latest rumor? UBL was not in Pakistan when he was killed. True/False? We will never know the truth about the raid.
Since you know about the 5 dancers, you also know their explanation about why they danced. Did the U.S. intelligence have the same information?

From another forum
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/4910058483

If the Israel-haters got their wish to see Israel disappear, what would ‎happen?‎

posted July 20, 2015 03:04 PM
This article was written by Mudar Zahran a Jordanian-Palestinian who resides in the U.K.

Below is just a portion of his article, you can read the entire article here.

If you have the time I recommend that you read the entire article as it contains many interesting things about the Palestinians.

First, Israel is the only reason Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons. Iran could buy the ‎technology to produce them, or could learn it quickly the way Pakistan did. Why has Iran been slow in ‎doing so? Because it learned a lesson from the experience of Saddam's Osirak reactor, which Israeli jets reduced to rubble in 1981.‎

Then, almost everyone, including George H. W. Bush who was vice president of the United States at that time, were furious ‎with Israel's move. But 10 years later, when the U.S. fought to liberate Kuwait, ‎the situation would have been totally different if Saddam had kept his nuclear program -- and the only reason ‎he did not was Israel.‎

Iran already controls at least a third of Iraq and its resources through a pro-Iranian ‎regime.If Israel were to disappear, Iran would extend its influence into Jordan, Kuwait and Bahrain ‎the next day, as it would not have to fear an Israeli reaction. Iran could then bring the world to its knees by reducing oil ‎production.

To those Arabs, Muslims, Westerners and others insisting that Israel must be erased from face of the ‎planet, I say: Don't bet on it, as Israel is becoming stronger every day through its democracy and ‎innovation, while Arab countries are getting weaker through dictatorship and chaos. And be careful ‎what you wish for, because if you were to get it, you too would most likely disappear, unless you ‎yearn to be ruled by Iran or Islamic State.‎

In short, if the day were to come when Israel falls, Jordan, Egypt and many others would fall, too, and ‎Westerners would be begging Iran for oil.‎

We can hate Israel as much as we like, but we must realize that without it, we too would be ‎gone.‎

______________________________________________________________________________

Saddam was deplorable. There was not unmitigated terrorism chaos like now however. Iraq is not a better place now. Did we forget the narrative the American people were sold were WMD's and Saddam's connection to terrorists groups, neither of which were true. He actually keep the terrorists at bay.

There was over a million strong genocide in Rwanda, yet we didn't get involved. There's no oil there. Libya was suppose to be a humanitarian effort. Hundreds of thousands are dead. We're so brazen to think the world is going to love us for this?

[quote]Do we not send Black OPS people around the world daily to kill our enemies in their own countries?]/quote]

I guess that makes us good people. Real humanitarians. The world will love us and want to send us gifts.

Quote :

The Liberty was a spy ship, if we though there was a ship spying on us during a war, we would have done the same. The Liberty was off the coast of Egypt during the war, we do not honor territorial waters when we want to shoot down enemy planes as we did to Libya during that time period.

The Lieutenant James Ennis in the previous youtube video has a pretty strong first hand account of what the ship was and wasn't. I guess if it's labeled is a spy ship, that's justification for our allie to sink it?

Israel provokes enough on their own. Using the US as their proxy, we end up with the blowback. People are shallow to think that actions have no repercussions.

Quote :

No one, not even the top brass know what goes on in the mid-east. The elected officials control what information they want the people to hear. Whats the latest rumor? UBL was not in Pakistan when he was killed. True/False? We will never know the truth about the raid.
Since you know about the 5 dancers, you also know their explanation about why they danced. Did the U.S. intelligence have the same information?

US intelligence and government knows a lot more than they would ever make public. Just like the 28 pages from the 911 report that indites Saudi Arabia for funding and supporting the terrorists that attacked us on 911. Yet we didn't bomb them. What weapons program was being run out of the Benghazi CIA annex? It's known, but they certainly don't want the public to know the weapons we were supplying are now being used against our "interests".

The American people are extremely gullible to believe the government, especially after being lied to for decades.

Israel being the reason Saddam didnt have nuclear weapons during the first gulf war is an interesting arguement. He violated another country and the world rallied around and kicked him out. Then nearly 25 years later Russia invades and annex's a neighbor and the world talks and does next to nothing bc Russia has a decent military and above all; nukes.

Wonder how things will unfold when North Korea implodes and their nuclear material/weapons will need to be secured....

TheQuig wrote:

First, Israel is the only reason Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons. Iran could buy the ‎technology to produce them, or could learn it quickly the way Pakistan did. Why has Iran been slow in ‎doing so? Because it learned a lesson from the experience of Saddam's Osirak reactor, which Israeli jets reduced to rubble in 1981.‎

Hey that's perfect. If Israel has an issue and feels compelled, bomb away, then Israel gets any blow back. No US service men die. Israel is perfectly capable militarily to bring arms against any countries in the ME.

Quote :

Then, almost everyone, including George H. W. Bush who was vice president of the United States at that time, were furious ‎with Israel's move. But 10 years later, when the U.S. fought to liberate Kuwait, ‎the situation would have been totally different if Saddam had kept his nuclear program -- and the only reason ‎he did not was Israel.‎

Iran already controls at least a third of Iraq and its resources through a pro-Iranian ‎regime.If Israel were to disappear, Iran would extend its influence into Jordan, Kuwait and Bahrain ‎the next day, as it would not have to fear an Israeli reaction. Iran could then bring the world to its knees by reducing oil ‎production.

To those Arabs, Muslims, Westerners and others insisting that Israel must be erased from face of the ‎planet, I say: Don't bet on it, as Israel is becoming stronger every day through its democracy and ‎innovation, while Arab countries are getting weaker through dictatorship and chaos. And be careful ‎what you wish for, because if you were to get it, you too would most likely disappear, unless you ‎yearn to be ruled by Iran or Islamic State.‎

In short, if the day were to come when Israel falls, Jordan, Egypt and many others would fall, too, and ‎Westerners would be begging Iran for oil.‎

For American's wanting to protect and defend the US, and our real interests as stated under the Constitution our borders and our citizens, there's not much above that's compelling to get in the middle of, no matter where the cards fall. The US has over 700 posts and bases around the world in 140 countries, carrier battlegroups in ever major theater, with an airforce that has global reach, and a nuclear weapons arsonel that could end the world. Yet the summary statement is compelling. "Westerners would be begging for Iran for oil". We're willing to send our sons and daughters to die for ME oil? There's no other place to get it? Russia has oil reserves that's rival SA. We kind of screwed that relationship up. Even the goofy W had pretty good relations going until Obama came in with a new wave of Communism.

Current sanctions have prevented the market from sourcing Iranian oil. We've somehow managed to live without Iran oil for this long. But as proposed above, we'd be begging for this oil? I've got a finger for them.

We now know that Saudi Arabia had a major hand in funding the terrorists that attacked us on 911. All but two of them were Saudi nationals. So its permissible this is our price to pay for ME oil, 3000 dead on 911 and 10k military and civilian in theater since? That defies rational thought.

Quote :

We can hate Israel as much as we like, but we must realize that without it, we too would be ‎gone.‎

That's far fetched and simply not true. The people that occupy a piece of sand is roughly the size of New Jersey is the determining point if we in the US live or die. That's got to be out of the Neo-Con playbook 101.

theshyguy wrote:

Israel being the reason Saddam didnt have nuclear weapons during the first gulf war is an interesting argument. He violated another country and the world rallied around and kicked him out. Then nearly 25 years later Russia invades and annex's a neighbor and the world talks and does next to nothing bc Russia has a decent military and above all; nukes.

US cables leaked by Wikileaks show that Saddam complained that Kuwait was slant drilling Iraqi oil. Saddam asked if the US had an opinion on his response. The US stated in the cables, we have no opinion on your response. Boy did we ever have an opinion. Then all the emotional crap they sold the public on. Iraqi's throwing babies out of incubators, as was testified in Congress by a Kuwaiti girl, who was later to be found her real identity was the ambassadors daughter and the entire incident was a flat out fabrication we know now.

Mind you Saddam was put into power by the US backed coup in '63 with his quick rise to power and leader in '79.

We just can't help ourselves from making the world a quagmire of 8h!t. The world will do well enough on its own, without our constant meddling.

Quote :

Wonder how things will unfold when North Korea implodes and their nuclear material/weapons will need to be secured....

Was successfully done so in South Africa. Pakistan is the one that needs thought and consideration. Hard to get corroborating information on this one on what's actual on grown and what's propaganda.

Quote :

Do we not send Black OPS people around the world daily to kill our enemies in their own countries?

I guess that makes us good people. Real humanitarians. The world will love us and want to send us gifts.
No, that just shows that we kill people just as Israel did to the USS Liberty when they thought it was in their best interest. That was the point of that statement.

The stability of the region depends on Israel, and we should support.
We fight wars that are a good cause, fight wars that are a bad cause, and as mentioned don't fight wars where we should be helping, mostly Africa. But we will never really help as earlier you alluded to these wars are based on tribal loyalty, religious beliefs, and countries made up after WWI and WWII.
Whatever is going on in the world, we only have the media and government to give their slant on the story. It's not we are gullible, just uninformed.

Quote :
We can hate Israel as much as we like, but we must realize that without it, we too would be ‎gone.‎

That's far fetched and simply not true. The people that occupy a piece of sand is roughly the size of New Jersey is the determining point if we in the US live or die. That's got to be out of the Neo-Con playbook 101.

And I guess history has never seen this before. What is that country that we just opened an Embassy? Oh Cuba, wasn't the world the closest to being destroyed over a small sandy island?

Like it or not, and I don't, we are the most powerful country and the world police.

theshyguy wrote:

Israel being the reason Saddam didnt have nuclear weapons during the first gulf war is an interesting arguement. He violated another country and the world rallied around and kicked him out. Then nearly 25 years later Russia invades and annex's a neighbor and the world talks and does next to nothing bc Russia has a decent military and above all; nukes.

Wonder how things will unfold when North Korea implodes and their nuclear material/weapons will need to be secured....

I think if we are lucky enough to see this happen China is a strong possibility of taking control of them.

TheQuig wrote:

I think if we are lucky enough to see this happen China is a strong possibility of taking control of them.

China already has nuclear weapons, so that would actually be a bonus. The NK threat is seriously hyped. They can't even keep eletricity on over there. Government too busy suppressing the people, an d looking strong on state sponsored TV. Kind of like that kid down the street who always tried to be cooler than everyone else but failed miserably.

TheQuig wrote:

And I guess history has never seen this before. What is that country that we just opened an Embassy?  Oh Cuba, wasn't the world the closest to being destroyed over a small sandy island?

Like it or not, and I don't, we are the most powerful country and the world police.

No problem fighting wars that need to be fought, when provoked. Declare war through Congress.

The never ending conflicts, with continual growing list of enemies across the globe for things that are honestly inconsequential to the sovereign USA and the propaganda promoted to the public are a serious disservice to the people and our Republic.

How did we get to Cuba here? Bay of pigs and Cuban missile crisis. Yes we almost went to war. War that without any certainty could have exchanged nuclear weapons. Would that have been desirable?

Some very smart people in the administration were able to get us through it without war. Amazing concept we might want to study that piece of history. The joint chiefs all wanted to perform a first strike, not guaranteeing we would get all the missile sites.

All the time JFK was exchanging messages with Khrushchev attempting to come to a diplomatic solution.

JFK pressed the joint chiefs on the Russian response if we killed Russians in Cuba. General LeMay said the Russian's couldn't and wouldn't respond, they would do nothing. LeMay was nuts and willing to bet the entire world his hunch was right.

Thankfully the conflict didn't come to war, else the outcome may have it as the planet not being inhabitable by any of the human race.

What are the positive value propositions that the US benefits today from the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia?

Quote :
We can hate Israel as much as we like, but we must realize that without it, we too would be ‎gone.‎

That's far fetched and simply not true. The people that occupy a piece of sand is roughly the size of New Jersey is the determining point if we in the US live or die. That's got to be out of the Neo-Con playbook 101.


That is what brought us to Cuba, sandy island had nukes.

Quote :
Wonder how things will unfold when North Korea implodes and their nuclear material/weapons will need to be secured....



TheQuig wrote:
I think if we are lucky enough to see this happen China is a strong possibility of taking control of them.

China already has nuclear weapons, so that would actually be a bonus. The NK threat is seriously hyped. They can't even keep eletricity on over there. Government too busy suppressing the people, an d looking strong on state sponsored TV. Kind of like that kid down the street who always tried to be cooler than everyone else but failed miserably.

I agree with you, I'm just saying China is the most likely nation NK will give up its nuclear weapons to.

What are the positive value propositions that the US benefits today from the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia?


The only benefit to these last wars the money made by the Industrial Military Complex and certain government officials. In the case of Afghanistan, there would be more terrorists attacks on the U.S. if they were not shut down. We will never be able to control any of those countries, so was there any benefit to get involved? We would have a better chance of controlling terrorism if we controlled our borders.

As for NK, them being given to another country is certain. But it would depend on who had control of them during the fall of the country would depend if they were done while idle or at 600mph.

Iran - This deal sucks and we gave up nearly every piece of leverage we had in return for nothing. We basically unfreeze 120-150 billion dollars and drop sanctions in exchange for a promise and self inspection. There is a reason why for the last 15 years there has not been a treaty; neither side trusts the other one. And the Europeans want these deal just as they were looking the other way for Saddam to get around sanctions, business contracts.

Iraq- We should have lent support for the Arabs to fight the fight. We should do the same when it finally comes to Iran. I dont see why we are still doing the vast majority for the work fighting ISIS.

in 1920 the League of Nations should have never decided the new country boarders in the region. Before that time, the tribes and religious groups live in mostly together without any major wars between other areas. Once Iraq was put together but some map maker, people are supposed to be loyal to a country that they never were part of and live alongside out peoples whether they be Arab, Purssian, Sunni, Shite. It didn't make sense then, and it doesn't make sense now. There will always be friction in the region until the groups live with their own people.