Towing Supremacy

Ford to Claim Towing Supremacy with 2015 F-450 (Not J2807 Certified)

Quote :

The never-ending battle among the truck brands continues, with a report from Automotive News claiming Ford will promote its 2015 F-450 Super Duty in a fall ad campaign touting a maximum towing capacity of 31,200 pounds, topping Ram’s SAE J2807 claim of 30,000 pounds for the Ram 3500. However, unlike Ram, Ford is not claiming compliance or certification to the J2807 standards for its Super Duty models until the line’s full redesign, expected around the 2017 model year.

The increased capacity is not mere boast, as Ford made some changes to the 2015 model to counter Ram’s challenge, including a beefier rear axle and increased output from the 6.7L Power Stroke V-8, bringing its output to 440 hp and 860 lb-ft—55 hp and 10 lb-ft higher than the Cummins 6.7L I-6 in the Ram 3500. According to the report, Ford acknowledges it was surprised by Ram’s bold claims for the 2013 model and worked hard on a counteroffensive to maintain its leadership in the segment.

General Motors has reported towing standards for its 1500-series trucks according to the J2807 protocol for the 2015 model year, but not for the HD models. A more powerful Duramax turbodiesel V-8 is rumored to be coming for the 2017 model year, at which time GM may revise its capability ratings for the HD trucks and report according to J2807.

Truck Trend

Ford should have worked hard to meet the J2807 standards if they want to truely surpass Ram.

this was, has been, and is stupid

there is not too many people towing that much with these things that should even be doing it they way most of the guys drive these things

I hate the government but it's almost like they just need to cap the max amount for these guys and let them fight over MPG or something else.

and ford claims a winner while not even complying to the standard

really lame....

Its to the point of irrelevancy now.  Towing standard or not.  There's not any job that magically gets done at 30k lbs that suddenly at a 31k towing requirement the world stops spinning.

The people need to be smart, rational, and realistic without having to resort to the all knowing government swooping in to insert their magnificent wisdom.

That's stupid...comparing the F-450 and the Ram 3500. Try the Ram 4500 for a direct comparison!

Didn't think Ram made a 4500 pickup.

4500 and 5500s are currently being made for the Ram.

All I can find are chassis cabs, not trucks with beds known as pickups.

Truth wrote:

All I can find are chassis cabs, not trucks with beds known as pickups.

Ok, understand.
Didn't Ford recently start offering a factory bed on the F450?

Several years back they offered a pickup off a true f450 platform, shorter turning radius than f350's. People complained because of the lower tire rated speed shutoff, 86 seems like. They went to a watered down f450 based off the 250/350 trucks. Maybe they are now back to a true 450, can't tell from pick above, should have 10 lug wheels if so.

Regardless, they tested both trucks max tow pickups. Apples to apples.

Truth wrote:

should have 10 lug wheels if so.

Looks like 10 on the bud wheel cover.

Truth wrote:

Regardless, they tested both trucks max tow pickups. Apples to apples.

Not a fair comparision of a F450 to a Ram 3500 or K3500, two different class trucks.
Would be like GM using a SRW 3500HD and claiming towing superiority over a Toyota Tundra.

There were many complaints back in the early '00s when GM came out with the 1500HD which was just a rebadged LD2500. However GM had built LD2500s with 6 lug wheels where as the 1500HD had 8 lug.  

Another ineresting thing is that the Ram 5500 cab/chassis has a max tow rating of 29,600 (which is less than some 3500s) but has a payload capacity of almost 11,800 which is nearly double a 3500 pickup.

How is it 2 different class trucks? Manufacturers can call the trucks any name they want. You just said that. They are very close in capabilities. Does that mean Ram was a different class truck last year when they had 30,000# towing payloads?

Truth wrote:

How is it 2 different class trucks? Manufacturers can call the trucks any name they want. You just said that.

An F450 is classed higher than a F350, just how it is. Just because Ford puts a factory bed on a F450 doesn't make it comparible to a F150. I don't know all the requirements for classifying a truck but it is not lug nuts, that just confuses people. GM made a 8 lug 1/2 ton while IHC and Jeep made a 6 lug 1 ton dually in the past.

Some states tax differently on trucks that are over a 1 ton class so the F450 can be an issue for some. Then there are HOAs that won't let you park anything over a 1 ton pickup in your driveway as well.

Same as if the International TerraStar was equiped with a bed we couldn't compare its 19,500 GVW to a F350.

But it does make it comparable to the Ram max tow 3500. In capabilities. If not, the Ram must be over rated.

Truth wrote:

If not, the Ram must be over rated.

OR is the F450 under built?

Do you mean underrated?

I went to Ram's website, and to get the max tow of 30,000 requires payload to be 0.

Truth wrote:

Do you mean underrated?

No, I meant under built, aka not as tough.
It takes Ford to jump upto a platform with 19.5 wheels to match the Ram 3500.
Again it isn't apples to apples anymore since Ram is meeting the new SAE tow standard but Ford won't submit its current trucks.

And according to Fords website they are lumping all full sized trucks above 8500 gvw into one class.
So a F450 dually will tow more than a Silverado 2500 SRW? 

Actually I don't think the current Ram 3500 is J2807 compliant, unless the 2015's are finally out. Anyhow, if they had used the 4500 chassis cab with a bed it would have fallen farther behind than the 3500 due to lower power ratings. Guess that wouldn't have been apples to apples either. GM doesn't have a dog in this hunt.

Oh, I agree that if they use the current C/C Ram 4500 they would be farther behind.
That I'd consider apples to apples if Ford Compared their F450 @31,600 to Rams 4500 of <30,000.
GM is SOL since they don't play in the 45/5500 classes anymore. 

Agreed.

I'm thinking if I needed to tow anything more than 20,000 lbs on a regular basis, I'd be looking at an MDT. And thirty thousand is just rediculous.

True, but I'm thinking there are some people like me, who need a truck as an office/work place and occasional tow vehicle. Not really wanting the hassle of driving around a medium duty truck for my daily chores and definitely not wanting 2 trucks. That's what the guy from OZ can't understand about Americans not wanting to drive transit vans for a daily driver. Thirty thou is a lot of weight for sure, but hopefully anyone towing that kind of weight has experience and good trailer brakes. What is more ridiculous to me is the fact that any Joe can buy a 50,000# motor home with air brakes and a class c license, and be out there with everyone.

Truth wrote:

What is more ridiculous to me is the fact that any Joe can buy a 50,000# motor home with air brakes and a class c license, and be out there with everyone.

I would rather them be behind the wheel of that motor coach than those people bulling a 30K travel trailer with electric brakes or better yet...recreational doubles stretching 70' long.

At least that motor coach has a chassis plenty heavy enough for its task.

I for one am tired of the big 3's HP, TQ, and towing wars as everyone here knows any of these trucks would not last long towing that kinda weight why not focus on FE and reliability, as far as the 450 to the 3500 comparison a true F-450 is the chassis not the pick-up the #'s really don't me anything anymore it seems Ford always sends the F-450 Pick-up to all these tests and not sure why, I think the only difference from the 350 to 450 pick-up is the brake drums and the 450 you can get the 4;30 rear and turns a lot sharper, I for one would rather be behind a 31,000 LBS pick-up truck than any recreational vehicle one simple reason the driver, I have seen enough of these recreational vehicles on the road to know that they have no clue what they are driving (not trying to judge all recreational vehicle drivers) but it seems when someone is behind the wheel of a 31,000LB pick-up truck they have a Class A CDL and know what they are doing more so than a Non-CDL recreational vehicles drivers that only drives 1 or 2 times a year JMHO

The vast majority of recreational RV pullers don't have CDLs.
Can't tell you how many recreational doubles I've seen being pulled by 1/2 ton trucks that are obviously over loaded.
Again, that big honking diesel pusher at least has the chassis/brakes/tires to handle the weight.

yes I agree the F-150's and 1500's I see going down the road with a 35' TT what the heck the trailer is twice as long as the truck, I just try to get out of there way, but I guess the same could be said for me going down the road with 38' of storage sheds wide load and all

Your 450 is more than up to the task for what you are doing though.
The loads you're hauling look bigger than what they weight would be my guess.

yep you got, shed aren't really all that heavy but pulling them down the road is a different story, it is like pulling a parachute down the road