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 F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis

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joemac

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PostSubject: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   May 13th 2014, 12:23 pm

The analysis from the original fill from the EB.



On the oil change at 4,827 miles used Pennzoil Ultra synthetic with Motorcraft filter FL500-S and will see how it tests with 6k miles or there abouts.

Far cry from where I was previously with results from the Silverado, last oil change interval was going to be 13k miles, though using 4 more quarts in total (10).

Started short on interval with the F150 and will build up accrue more mileage into the interval as results indicate. The only concern I have so far is raw fuel. Ford implementation of direct fuel injections seems more susceptible in contaminating the oil with raw fuel much more so than other manufacturers. I've seen some samples online that indicated 3% raw fuel present or higher. Not any real scientific quantities of trucks affected to report, just a considerable amount of discussions and just about every Ford DI sample from any model has raw fuel present. This isn't exactly the case with other manufacturers DI implementations.  My wife's 2.0 EB Ford Edge also has traces of fuel present in her samples.

Ford did release a TSB to address severe fuel dilution in cold climates on the 3.5 EB.  Along with an EGR replacement, added an engine block heater, and adjusted the cold start-up fuel mapping.

Another 800 miles to go until the next interval.
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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   May 13th 2014, 2:51 pm

Don't care what they say but I will not run the factory fill the full extended interval.
Even our Cruze showed higher trace metals, again which is normal but I like to get them out at 2500 miles.
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   July 17th 2014, 5:47 pm

Second UOA sample and results.

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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   July 18th 2014, 9:52 am

#s are coming down but wow is that copper high.
Here are the #s from our Cruze.
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   July 19th 2014, 3:15 pm

High yes. All things into perspective, we're talking particles per million. As long as the number is trending in the right direction and it hasn't grenaded not much to be concerned.

Comparatively the copper from the Cruze initial fill to first changed dropped 70%, the EB initial fill to first change dropped 67%. Only major comparative difference is the EB ran an additional 2300 miles on the initial fill.

Anxious to see what the copper does this next go around. Really want to see how far I can push the mileage on the oil.

The Cruze has started off with all around good results.
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shatto

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   August 28th 2014, 3:04 pm

Yaaay, you, for doing an analysis.

To get the best performance and fuel economy, the best way to properly break-in the engine is to use conventional oil for about 12,000 miles. That allows for proper seating of piston rings and other parts, bits and pieces.
Then use synthetic oil.
But, consider this;
You are making payments on a vehicle with an engine that will cost you at least $5,000.00 to replace.
So why not invest in the best synthetic you can get. Maybe you'll be able to drive it oh, maybe 623,000 miles.

By the way both the filter and oil are rated for 25,000 mile changes, if you want to save oil change money, and use Amsoil.
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   August 28th 2014, 5:58 pm

shatto wrote:
Yaaay, you, for doing an analysis.

To get the best performance and fuel economy, the best way to properly break-in the engine is to use conventional oil for about 12,000 miles. That allows for proper seating of piston rings and other parts, bits and pieces.

Today's engines are manufactured and offered to the customer taking most of all the break-in concerns out of the customers hands.

Quote :
Then use synthetic oil.
But, consider this;
You are making payments on a vehicle with an engine that will cost you at least $5,000.00 to replace.
So why not invest in the best synthetic you can get. Maybe you'll be able to drive it oh, maybe 623,000 miles.

Complete engine replacements are expensive today. The 3.5 EB is around a $8k to $9k replacement for a new complete engine.

Many vehicles today require greater than conventional from the factory, semi or full synthetic. The F150 EB requires semi-synthetic.

Quote :
By the way both the filter and oil are rated for 25,000 mile changes, if you want to save oil change money, and use Amsoil.

I've found no manufacturer documentation that supports this. Moreover I've yet to see any UOA analysis in quantity that can use six quarts of oil for 25,000 miles and still be good for continued use.

Regardless of the oil when then additive package is done, it's done, the oil has lost it's core ability to lubricate. I'd be interested to see many instances of any oil that supports a validated 25k mile oil change interval.
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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   January 23rd 2015, 11:56 pm

How many engine failures have you heard about? I haven't.............. ever that I can recall? A truck at work has 190k with oil changes done every 10k with bulk dino, add 1 quart every 5-6k. It's a 2001, it's starting to rot away, so I think todays engines and engine oils (dino) are far better than some give them credit. That being said, I do use synthetic in everything I got, so I just do yearly oil changes on everything.

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Merchant Auto Pump Rub fix
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   January 24th 2015, 2:17 am

Heard or read about likely 20 to 40 over my life time. How many of them have been proven to an oil related failure? Maybe one. This case it was a one of the early model year Chevy Traverse with 3.6. They ran it out of oil. Dealer did all oil changes and it had been several thousand miles since they had it changed. They got no oil level low or pressure indicator, none. Least that what was stated. Amazing GM warrantied the engine and they immediately traded it for an Enclave. Same engine 3.6 engine.

Many engines with catastrophic failures, rods thrown or not so catastrophic but enough to warrant a replacement long block. There's a current thread on f150forum someone getting a new long block because of a 5.0 ticking or knock at idle. There was a 3.5 EB pictured on f150fourm late this last year with a hole in the side of the block. Engine literally seized.

My Dmax was up to 13k miles on conventional oil using Chevron Delo LE-400. Truly amazing when I compare this mileage interval to my gasoline vehicles.

One of the reasons I like the UOA is to potentially identify the early signs of a catastrophic event, before it costs thousands to repair. Plus I don't care on changing oil once every couple months in my wife's car. The longer I can run it without harm, I'm good for that.
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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   January 24th 2015, 12:54 pm

joemac wrote:
Heard or read about likely 20 to 40 over my life time.  How many of them have been proven to an oil related failure?  Maybe one.  This case it was a one of the early model year Chevy Traverse with 3.6.  They ran it out of oil.  Dealer did all oil changes and it had been several thousand miles since they had it changed.  They got no oil level low or pressure indicator, none.  Least that what was stated.  Amazing GM warrantied the engine and they immediately traded it for an Enclave.  Same engine 3.6 engine.

Many engines with catastrophic failures, rods thrown or not so catastrophic but enough to warrant a replacement long block.  There's a current thread on f150forum someone getting a new long block because of a 5.0 ticking or knock at idle.  There was a 3.5 EB pictured on f150fourm late this last year with a hole in the side of the block.  Engine literally seized.

My Dmax was up to 13k miles on conventional oil using Chevron Delo LE-400.  Truly amazing when I compare this mileage interval to my gasoline vehicles.  

One of the reasons I like the UOA is to potentially identify the early signs of a catastrophic event, before it costs thousands to repair.  Plus I don't care on changing oil once every couple months in my wife's car.  The longer I can run it without harm, I'm good for that.

Yeah the Dmax engine is uber easy on oil, something I like alot ! You must be on BITOG ?

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2007 Chevy Duramax 4x4 CC SB wrapped in Summit White
265 Cooper Discover AT3's
Bilstein 5100's on all 4 corners
efi live tuned
EGR Blocked
PCV Re-routed
Merchant Auto Pump Rub fix
All-season Diesel Performance Transmission line repair kit
GM factory fog lights added
Elephant Ear mirrors added
Super Hide seat covers
XM Satellite radio - mobile unit - replaced with an i-pod !
JVC Sound System
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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   January 24th 2015, 1:11 pm

I've got over to BITOG a new times.  Posted results once, then just got assaulted by some self anointed know at all's for not changing the oil at the interval they thought I should have, haven't gone back much if any after.
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Bambam
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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   January 24th 2015, 9:55 pm

joemac wrote:
I've got over to BITOG a new times.  Posted results once, then just got assaulted by some self anointed know at all's for not changing the oil at the interval they thought I should have, haven't gone back much if any after.

Having been on BITOG for over a decade its amazing the "fad's" and "Einsteins" that come and go !


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2007 Chevy Duramax 4x4 CC SB wrapped in Summit White
265 Cooper Discover AT3's
Bilstein 5100's on all 4 corners
efi live tuned
EGR Blocked
PCV Re-routed
Merchant Auto Pump Rub fix
All-season Diesel Performance Transmission line repair kit
GM factory fog lights added
Elephant Ear mirrors added
Super Hide seat covers
XM Satellite radio - mobile unit - replaced with an i-pod !
JVC Sound System
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   February 1st 2015, 2:05 pm

UOA from 12/24/14 sample.

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   February 1st 2015, 3:15 pm

So what to attribute the fuel in the oil to?

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265 Cooper Discover AT3's
Bilstein 5100's on all 4 corners
efi live tuned
EGR Blocked
PCV Re-routed
Merchant Auto Pump Rub fix
All-season Diesel Performance Transmission line repair kit
GM factory fog lights added
Elephant Ear mirrors added
Super Hide seat covers
XM Satellite radio - mobile unit - replaced with an i-pod !
JVC Sound System
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   February 1st 2015, 4:17 pm

Ford's aggressive cold start fuel tables.  For those in cold ambient conditions and or frequent cold starts the issue becomes notable on some units.  Ford has released a couple TSB's to address the issue 14-0014 superseded by 15-0003 just earlier this month.

All the latest TSB is a PCM reprogram, oil change, validating and or replacing a certain version of the PCV, and a replacement of a totally unrelated ABS module or harness.  I may take the truck in to see if they'll perform the TSB.  I just filled it with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and don't want to toss it out.  May wait till spring or early summer.

1.8% equates roughly to 3.4 ounces of fuel.  Other factor here is that the oil was run longer than any of the previous samples.  Likely more cold starts thus more fuel than previous samples.

Many of the Ford die-hards simply state it's a by-product of direct injection.  Simply misinformation.  I can find sample after sample of diesels with zero fuel, Hyundai, GM, and other gas DI engines manufactures with zero fuel.  Now it does appear that DI engines are more susceptible to having small small traces for whatever reason.  Ford seems to have a disproportionate number of DI's with small samplings of fuel.  Some levels concerning 5%+.  My wifes 2.0 EB has fuel in it, trace amounts less than .5%.  Always smaller amounts than mine while she's running her oil at longer intervals.  She has two less cylinders, fewer injectors if that matters.
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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   August 24th 2015, 11:00 pm

UOA from 8/13/15 sample.

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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   March 5th 2016, 12:35 pm

Not to hijack the thread, but how much does a UOA cost? Been thinking about it for the eyetalian staff car (Fiat). There's no real oil change recommendation other than no more than a year or 10,000 miles between changes- like a lot of new vehicles it relies on an algorithm and a light on the dash. It's (to me anyways) a long time between changes; it's been a little over 8000 miles between oil changes thus far.
It came from the factory with dino oil but to me, 8000 miles on dino oil is a bit too much. They do seem to have it pretty well dialed in- I've checked the stick when the light trips and the oil still looks almost new but it isn't long after that it turns black. That said, a visual look is certainly no substitute for UOA. I've switched to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 for (hopefully) a little peace of mind. Oil is critical in any engine but perhaps more so in this one- it uses oil pressure via a solenoid to operate the intake valves.
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PostSubject: Re: F150 3.5 EB Oil Analysis   March 5th 2016, 4:29 pm

Blackstone charges as of this last month charges $28 for basic analysis. Adding the TBN test is an extra $10.

There are a lot of people that after establishing a mileage baseline will forgo testing, and only do so periodically. More cost effective.

As you point out, color has nothing to do with the oils condition. Moreover oil being dark means it's doing one of it's primary duties.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum seems to be the cream of the crop for retail oil. It tests really well in a variety of vehicles.
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