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 Ford V6 vs V8

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joemac
Diesel Dan
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ggbaird




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PostSubject: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 12:49 am

63% of Ford F150 Pickups Sold in August Pack EcoBoost Power

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Quote :
Ford Motor Company rolled the dice when they introduced the twin turbocharged EcoBoost V6 for the F150 pickup a few years back and that gamble continues to pay off, with a whopping 63% of new F150 pickups sold in August 2015 coming with one of the two EcoBoost engine options – accounting for an improvement of 86% compared to the same month last year.

While there are still some folks out there who question Ford’s EcoBoost engine program, there are now hundreds of thousands of people who have purchased an F150 with the powerful twin turbo V6 engine. The expectations prior to the introduction of the first EcoBoost V6 were that “truck people” would insist on a V8 for their premium engine choice, but in reality, it looks like F150 buyers aren’t so concerned with the number of cylinders so long as the engine packs enough power. Because of that, the 3.5L EcoBoost V6 has been a smashing success since day 1 and that success led to the introduction of the new 2.7L EcoBoost V6 in the 2015 F150.

The new 2.7L EcoBoost V6 doesn’t pack the premium power of the 3.5L EcoBoost, but with 325 horsepower and 375lb-ft of torque, a maximum towing capacity of 8,400lbs and a maximum payload capacity of 2,140lbs, the 2.7L EcoBoost is a very powerful little engine. More importantly, with the ability to reach 26mpg on the highway, this is the most fuel efficient gasoline truck engine in the US right now – which has led the EcoBoost technology to be even more popular in the 2015 F150.

August Sales Boom

The Ford F Series truck family posted huge numbers in 2014, often moving more than 70,000 units per month and it was widely expected that when the new 2015 F150 was introduced, it would lead to even greater sales figures. Unfortunately for both Ford Motor Company and the consumer market, the automaker has been plagued with roadblocks which have prevented them from getting enough new trucks to dealerships around the country and as a result, sales numbers through 2015 have been lower than expected. However, as Ford has kept the pace up, dealerships around the country are finally getting their full spread of new F150 pickups and as a result, August proved to be the best month of 2015 for the F Series pickup.

In August, Ford moved 71,332 examples of the F Series pickup, marking the first time in 2015 when sales climbed over the 70k mark. This is the best August since 2006 for the F Series family, with numbers being about 5% better than they were in August last year – and we can fully expect to see these numbers continue to grow over the coming months.

EcoBoost Dominates Sales

In August, there were 71,332 Ford trucks sold in the US and while we don’t know how many of those trucks were F150 models, we know that of the F150s sold last month, a whopping 63% had either the 2.7L or 3.5L EcoBoost V6. That leaves just 37% to be divvied up between the base model V6 and the 5.0L V8, making it very clear that while expensive – EcoBoost technology is clearly the most popular option for those folks buying the 2015 F150.

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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 9:54 am

From a business stand point Ford hit a homerun with its Eco-boost line of engines.
GM wishes they had even half that acceptance rate for their 4.3L V6.
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 11:37 am

From a marketing standpoint the EB's are a hit. Reviews form owners are mixed, not as gushing as article describes "smashing success". Owner reviews are not nearly as positive as the Ford marketing machine. On the flip side Ford is bottom of the pile with their V8 comparatively.

So not a shock to see the take rate of the EB. The EB is the premium choice in the F-150 lineup. With the V8 offering is mediocre at best, what does the general public expect to be the F-150 dominate powerplant? Much to do with nothing really, except Ford doing what they do best, marketing.
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 11:39 am

Diesel Dan wrote:
GM wishes they had even half that acceptance rate for their 4.3L V6.

And Ford wishes it had a quarter of the acceptance of GM's and Ram's V8 take rate. I don't see GM wishing anything. They've got their strategy in the half tons and currently beating Ford pretty soundly.

With one of the main reasons for consideration is the unqualified "fuel economy" between the Ford EB and GM/Ram V8's. In the real world GM and RAM haven't given up anything in FE to the Ford V6's that has any real significance.
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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 1:27 pm

joemac wrote:
 I don't see GM wishing anything.  They've got their strategy in the half tons and currently beating Ford pretty soundly.  

The initial mix of V6s had such a low take rate they had to offer special discounts to move them.
Also the 6.2L, arguably the best engine, is still production limited. IIRC they even stated that they were expecting higher V6 sales.
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 4:42 pm

Diesel Dan wrote:
he initial mix of V6s had such a low take rate they had to offer special discounts to move them. Also the 6.2L, arguably the best engine, is still production limited. IIRC they even stated that they were expecting higher V6 sales.

The GM and Ford V6 offerings are marketed on opposite ends of the line-ups.  The GM V6 is the base model engine offering, unlike the Ford where the EB is the premium in the line-up.  

Ram or GM's mix of V8 power will be higher than Fords EB mix.  Doesn't prove anything.  Just a stat on a sheet.  Ford's the best at marketing BS.[/quote]


Last edited by joemac on September 9th 2015, 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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toyboxrv




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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 10:19 pm

The 5.0L Ford is mediocre? More HP than the 5.3 with 1 mpg less doesn't seem mediocre. Some more gears to it and it will likely gain a little more on the Ram 5.7L 8 speed. Same HP and only 15 less in torque than Tundra's best with better mileage.

Exaggerate much?
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 9th 2015, 11:16 pm

Conveiently forget about the GM the 6.2 liter 420HP/460TQ? The Ram 395HP/410TQ. The best V8 Ford has in an F-150 is 385HP/387TQ. That's the pinnacle V8 performance in a Ford F-150.

5.0 medicore yes, it's a middle of the road powertrain. The 5.0 is positioned below the 3.5 EB in the Ford line-up, but is the best V8 Ford offers in the F-150. Then compairing it to the competition V8 capability, it falls short.

The XL base engine is the NA 3.5.

The 2.7 EB adds $795
The 5.0 adds $1595
The 3.5 EB flagship engine adds $1995

More over all Ford powertrains are saddled with a mediocre 6 speed.

Some are incapable of being objective and calling it like it is.
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toyboxrv




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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 10th 2015, 10:08 am

Really? Tell us how much power the more popular 5.3 GM makes. Talk about mediocre. Wow ten more HP from the larger Hemi with less mileage. How many GM trucks have the 6.2 available in them? Toyota has how much power and mileage? Seems the 5.0 Ford is more mid pack than bottom of the barrel as you suggest.

You show pricing for Ford engines, but not other brands. Most people pick the 5.3 in a GM and it clearly is a weaker choice than the Ford V8. It's not until 2016 that the GM 5.3 is available with an 8 speed.

Exaggerate much?
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 10th 2015, 10:47 am

toyboxrv wrote:
Really? Tell us how much power the more popular 5.3 GM makes.

Never mentioned anything about the 5.3.  It's a mid tier, middle of the road, mediocre offering like the 5.0.  Like Ford the GM 5.3 V8 is positioned under the 6.2.  In Fords case the 5.0 is positioned under the 3.5 EB.

Quote :
How many GM trucks have the 6.2 available in them?

This was a mid model year change in the 1500 offering the 6.2 with 8L90E eight speed.  Feel free to count them.  2016 orders were opened on 8/6 with start of production 10/5 through 10/12 depending on trim.

Quote :
Toyota has how much power and mileage? Seems the 5.0 Ford is more mid pack than bottom of the barrel as you suggest.

When you compare the best V8 offerings from all the manufacturers the Ford V8 is at the bottom or near the bottom.  

Quote :
You show pricing for Ford engines, but not other brands. Most people pick the 5.3 in a GM and it clearly is a weaker choice than the Ford V8. It's not until 2016 that the GM 5.3 is available with an 8 speed.

The 5.3 is a $1095 option over the base.  I'm not the sole prevailer of all metrics and specs.  Feel free to tally up whatever lists and specs at your leisure to show how the Ford V8 isn't second fiddle to top V8 capability of other manufacturers.

Quote :
Exaggerate much?
 Really have a disdain for the word mediocre associated with the Ford V8 eh?  

Circling back around.  This is a good marketing piece for the Ford EB strategy.  Using Fords numbers the 5.0 is at best 37% of the F-150 powertrain mix.  This doesn't include the base NA 3.5 in base and fleet trucks  How much less?   A range of 12 to 25% would be an approximation of where the 5.0 take rate might fall.
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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 10:01 am

joemac wrote:
This was a mid model year change in the 1500 offering the 6.2 with 8L90E eight speed.  Feel free to count them.  2016 orders were opened on 8/6 with start of production 10/5 through 10/12 depending on trim.

Just went to the Chevy website and couldn't build a 2016 Silverado.
As for 2015 the 6.2L/8A is only available on LTZ+ trims.

With Ram I can get a Hemi/8A in tradesman trim.
GM assumes the only people that want max tow also want a trimmed out truck.
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toyboxrv




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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 10:32 am

When did I say the 5.0 was Ford's top engine choice joemac? What difference does it make anyway? The 5.3 GM is the engine in most trucks or what the majority of people want. Ford's top engine choice is a TT V6. Oh but it doesn't have the right engine sound you can't hear with the windows up like most people drive.

Why is your choice and your silly qualifier of having to be a V8, which you didn't buy, so important to anyone?
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toyboxrv




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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 10:33 am

When did I say the 5.0 was Ford's top engine choice joemac? What difference does it make anyway? The 5.3 GM is the engine in most trucks or what the majority of people want. Ford's top engine choice is a TT V6. Oh but it doesn't have the right engine sound you can't hear with the windows up like most people drive.

Why is your choice and your silly qualifier of having to be a V8, which you didn't buy, so important to anyone?
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Breathing Borla

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 10:55 am

joemac wrote:
From a marketing standpoint the EB's are a hit.  Reviews form owners are mixed, not as gushing as article describes "smashing success".  Owner reviews are not nearly as positive as the Ford marketing machine.  On the flip side Ford is bottom of the pile with their V8 comparatively.

So not a shock to see the take rate of the EB.  The EB is the premium choice in the F-150 lineup.  With the V8 offering is mediocre at best, what does the general public expect to be the F-150 dominate powerplant?  Much to do with nothing really, except Ford doing what they do best, marketing.

very well said.

hey ford..

need larger V8 What a Face

____________________________________
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joemac

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 10:59 am

You're free to think believe state whatever you like.  This isn't about you or me.  You were that didn't like me qualifying the best Ford V8 as mediocre.  If you don't like the term fine, not asking for anyone's approval.  If think you think the Ford V8 is the second coming of Christ then great.

The facts are facts.  The best V8 Ford has is positioned behind V6 3.5 EB in Fords marketing strategy.  The best Ford V8 falls short of the best V8 offerings of other manufacturers.  That's all no more no less.  Ford Elvis'd the 6.2 SOHC engine, that was their decision, let the chips fall where they may.  

Comparing the 5.0 to the 5.3 is exactly the point, these are mid-tier mediocre V8 offerings.  There are better performing V8's offered.  

Rolling back to the original article. As I originally stated.  It's not a surprise the F-150 V6 and V8 take rates are what they are.  Ford has put all the investment into the EB line, marketed it, and executed on that.   Heck even the upcoming flagship Raptor is getting the 3.5 EB.  If Ford still offered the 6.2 with the latest revisions and technology, or some premium performance V8 the sales mix wouldn't be so V6 heavy.  In summary Ford is making something into news, to promote the EB, event though it's in inevitability.
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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 1:32 pm

joemac wrote:
The facts are facts.  The best V8 Ford has is positioned behind V6 3.5 EB in Fords marketing strategy.  The best Ford V8 falls short of the best V8 offerings of other manufacturers.  That's all no more no less.  

Ford offers it best V8 and best V6 in their lower trim XL models.
Ram offers its best V8 and Diesel in their lowest tradesman trim.
GM only offers the 6.2L in the upper trims, no LS or LT.

IIRC GMs best selling trim option is the LT level of which the 6.2L is NOT an option.

So for the average truck buyer comparing the 5.0L Ford to the 5.3L GM is a fair comparison, hell for that matter comparing the 3.7EB to the 5.3L is fair as well.
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toyboxrv




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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 2:10 pm

The point of the article is that the buyer is accepting the EB motors as a truck engine that meets their needs. the 5.3 is very good for the majority of buyers that aren't pulling really big trailers and getting better mileage than other V8s or V6s. The 5.0 Ford has an edge on power but a step back on mileage. the Tundra 5.7 has another step on power but two steps back on mileage.

Not everyone is so consumed with outrunning all the other trucks at a stop light. The limited availability of the GM 6.2 takes away from its top of the heap performance.
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Diesel Dan

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 2:48 pm

toyboxrv wrote:
Not everyone is so consumed with outrunning all the other trucks at a stop light. The limited availability of the GM 6.2 takes away from its top of the heap performance.

To get GMs highest TOW rating you need the 6.2L/8A combo.
To do that you HAVE to buy a luxury truck.

In the HDs one can get a Dmax/Ally in base trim.
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pup

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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 2:50 pm

Its apparent that GM thinks the majority of their 1/2ton buyers aren't buying the GM twins for their performance or towing abilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Ford V6 vs V8   Ford V6 vs V8 EmptySeptember 11th 2015, 7:42 pm

joemac wrote:
From a marketing standpoint the EB's are a hit.  Reviews form owners are mixed, not as gushing as article describes "smashing success".  Owner reviews are not nearly as positive as the Ford marketing machine.  On the flip side Ford is bottom of the pile with their V8 comparatively.

So not a shock to see the take rate of the EB.  The EB is the premium choice in the F-150 lineup.  With the V8 offering is mediocre at best, what does the general public expect to be the F-150 dominate powerplant?  Much to do with nothing really, except Ford doing what they do best, marketing.

Yes, I've a few stories about people selling them for various reasons. Unfortunately, the owner takes a big hit when doing that. EB reality versus EB marketing indeed.
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