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 So, what about Kim Davis?

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TheQuig

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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 12:27 pm

theshyguy wrote:
Now only the vocal minority are protected. Everyone has to assimilate to those few or be punished and shamed.


We are now the "Borg".

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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 2:43 pm

joemac wrote:
toyboxrv wrote:
No state shall make or enforce a law that shall abridge the privileges of the citizens. Being married is a privilege regardless of whether a religion thinks someone else should be married or not.

Privileges or Rights?

Driving with a state issued drivers license is a privilege.  States can remove the driving privileged from a person for the result of a misdemeanor DUI.   Religious freedom is a right, and doesn't need a license from the state.  The state can not remove your thoughts, views, or practice of religion, thus a right in the truest sense.

SCOTUS has set precedence in over a dozen cases that defines marriage as a "fundamental right", this again is precedence and not law or a "Constitutional right".  These cases did not involve same sex issues.

Quote :
A religion doesn't give anyone the right to inhibit another persons rights. Marriage is not limited to those with a religion, atheists and agnostics have a right to marry as well.

Marriage is not a right as defined in the US Constitution Bill of Rights.

Quote :
Marriage licenses came about to protect the rights of those involved. The government has created a binding contract between two people and to also protect children. At some point in the future it likely will be applied to multiple spouses and the union of siblings and first cousins.

This is incorrect.  1923, the Federal Government established the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act.  It was several years after before states had actually enacted their own marriage laws.  The law intent was to prevent interracial marriage (black and white ethic groups).  The licensing aspect was the states verification process that your proposed marriage was vetted and approved as non-interracial. This is the roots of the US marriage laws and license system sources.

Neither a privilege or a right can be denied without due process of law. A law can't restrict or deny a citizen a privilege when it goes against the protections of the constitution. The right to practice religion doesn't allow for violating the rights and privileges of others, Can't burn a heretic at the stake. Can't tell someone else they can't have a right or privilege because of your religion.

It's your opinion of the intent of the Uniform Marriage and Marriage License Act. It's not part of the constitution and can't be used to disparage rights granted to the citizens. It is specifically stated that the rights listed in the constitution are not the only rights that citizens have.

A right to practice a religion doesn't grant the right to restrict others rights to their lifestyle, no matter how much you may not like it. You may not push your thoughts on me because you think you're right or your religion guides you to.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 4:35 pm

Tell that to Obama and his drones, "Due" and "Process".
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 4:55 pm

Rights are defined in the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution.  Everything is legislated is law.  Legislated law doesn't trump Constitutional rights.  Marriage is not a right.  Marriage is not a privilege.  Marriage is a union usually between two people, but can differ on unique religious aspects. Now to become married in the US you must obtain a license from government.  SCOTUS ruled that marriage licenses will be issued to heterosexuals and homosexuals.  Liberals haven't gone for animals, but that can't be far off.

Kim's religious beliefs are not compelling anyone for any good or service.  Kim has not demanded that others accept her beliefs.  Just the opposite it true.  People are asking her for labor and service.  This labor and service in her mind violates her faith.  This is protected by Kentucky religious exceptions act and the 1st Amendment.  Therefore any of the five other deputy county clerks that don't have a religious constraint on same sex marriage will issue licenses.   There is no issue here unless liberals continue to make up one.  This is a good distraction however for other liberal issues like Hilliary Clinton's continued lack of integrity, Planned Parenthood, lack of borders, courting illegal aliens to get new voters, etc.


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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 5:00 pm

pup wrote:
Tell that to Obama and his drones, "Due" and "Process".

Four American citizens killed that we know about.  I read just in the past couple of days the UK is killing their own now as well.

Seems when the rule of law becomes inconvenient, we jut ignore it.  Liberal supporters fall in lock step as well, bordering totalitarian.  People will be begging and pleading for the rule of law when they are the target of the government one day.

We can not as a country selectively apply the rule of law when convenient.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 5:43 pm

Another instance where Rule of Law is being completely ignored by both sides is this arming of Iran with Nuclear Weapons

The Corker bill clearly states the ENTIRE agreement was to be submitted to congress within 5 days of the announced deal. That date came and went July 19. Congress still hasn't gotten the entire agreement in its hands.

The debate on this debacle should have ended on July 20, but the charade marches on. CNN is reporting it as a "Win" for the White House that GOP's fake efforts to derail the deal was blocked.

Why the all out effort to fund and arm Iran? That's what we should be worried about, not some 4 time divorcee adulterous fake Christian in the backwoods of KY.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 10th 2015, 6:08 pm

But not many in the Rep party had the balls to stand up and say they didn't get the entire agreement. They had the leverage handed to them by the IAEA with them admitting to the side deals but the Reps didn't so sh!t with it. I stead they rolled over and Obama rubbed their belly and he gets what he wants as usual because no one has the balls to stand up to him.

The only ones trying to do anything to hinder the demise of the US and stop Obama are being demonized by the left and their own party.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 10:52 am

joemac wrote:
Rights are defined in the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution.  Everything is legislated is law.  Legislated law doesn't trump Constitutional rights.  Marriage is not a right.  Marriage is not a privilege.  Marriage is a union usually between two people, but can differ on unique religious aspects. Now to become married in the US you must obtain a license from government.  SCOTUS ruled that marriage licenses will be issued to heterosexuals and homosexuals.  Liberals haven't gone for animals, but that can't be far off.

Kim's religious beliefs are not compelling anyone for any good or service.  Kim has not demanded that others accept her beliefs.  Just the opposite it true.  People are asking her for labor and service.  This labor and service in her mind violates her faith.  This is protected by Kentucky religious exceptions act and the 1st Amendment.  Therefore any of the five other deputy county clerks that don't have a religious constraint on same sex marriage will issue licenses.   There is no issue here unless liberals continue to make up one.  This is a good distraction however for other liberal issues like Hilliary Clinton's continued lack of integrity, Planned Parenthood, lack of borders, courting illegal aliens to get new voters, etc.

Read Amendment 9 about enumerated rights. Not all rights are defined by the constitution. Read about the equal protection clause of Amendment 14.

Kim's religious beliefs are denying equal access to marriage. Just because she denies everyone isn't an excuse. She claimed God's authority, which he has none under US or Kentucky law.

Anyone's practice of religion doesn't give them the right to force their beliefs on others. Kim could not be more wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 11:21 am

toyboxrv wrote:
Read Amendment 9 about enumerated rights. Not all rights are defined by the constitution. Read about the equal protection clause of Amendment 14.

Kim's religious beliefs are denying equal access to marriage. Just because she denies everyone isn't an excuse. She claimed God's authority, which he has none under US or Kentucky law.

Anyone's practice of religion doesn't give them the right to force their beliefs on others. Kim could not be more wrong.

Kim isn't demanding compelling anyone to perform anything on her behalf, not asking for any good or service.  "Forcing beliefs" is incorrect.

Marriage is not among the enumerated powers over which the federal government oversight.  That's why the SOCTUS decision referred to the equal protection clause under the 14th Amendment in its decision. Wont find the word marriage in the 14th.  This was the way it got to the end means, the end around.  The court has an opinion on the 14th, but in doing so violates the 1st amendment, legal standing here?  Not.  That's why law's that effect marriage were passed starting in the 1920's by the Fed and the states shortly after to license unions.  Therefore, it is reserved for the states and the people.  This is why over a dozen states had passed laws in both directions on this very issue, it's a state issue, not federal.   The people of Kentucky have spoken; their state Constitution defines marriage as between a man and a woman.  The state Constitution needs to be changed to reflect the SOCTUS decision. There has even been talk that licenses issued up to this point could be void.

Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, more enumerated rights in the Deceleration of Independence.

Let's see how well those work out today.

Life, no we kill US Citizens who haven't been charged with a crime or given due process.  Government funded PP kills hundreds of thousands of babies annually and auctions of body parts.  

Liberty, the US is now considered the "battlefield" thanks McCain Graham, the state can label you an unlawful enemy combatant and can indefinitely detain without due process.

Happiness, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA  Seen our country lately.  Some might defined happiness to be private with their affairs and commercial transactions, so much for that thanks NSA.

Those rights not explicitly defined, have vanished, some are trying to keep the ones that have hard words and explicitly defined.  So the enumerated right of marriage, wherever that exists, trumps the 1st amendment to the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution, check.

The only way same sexes can get married is through her, in that county.  Rolling Eyes  Let's ignore deputy clerks are handing out licenses. Let's ignore the Kentucky religious exception act.  Let's ignore there are two other county clerks in Kentucky right now that aren't providing licenses.  Let's ignore that there are a million other places same sex couples could get married.  In the end, the focus is on the person, not the rule of law and is about forcing others without a different belief system, the traditional American one, to void their faith.  By the sounds of this travesty, there must be millions of gays lineup in the county.  Can't wait to see what another alternative belief system Sharia law in this country can make others do against their will.

Like what she did or not, agree or disagree with it doesn't matter.  She hasn't stolen, or hurt anyone.  Even the judge can't help himself from further stomping on her rights to due process  http://oathkeepers.org/oktester/oath-keepers-offer-of-protection-for-embattled-clerk-kim-davis/

Oathkeepers Article wrote:
We believe Federal District Court Judge David Bunning grossly overstepped his bounds and violated Mrs Davis’ due process rights, and in particular her right to a jury trial.  This judge has assumed unto himself not just the powers of all three branches of government, but has also taken on the powers of judge, jury, and “executioner.”  What matters to us is not whether you agree with her position on gay marriage or her decision to not issue marriage licenses.  What matters is that the judge is violating the Constitution in his anger and desire to punish her for going against his will.  We are already being subjected to an unconstitutional imperial presidency, that grew exponentially under both Bush and Obama, expanding the claimed war powers of the president to swallow up our Bill of Rights and circumvent jury trial.  The result is an executive branch that claims the absurd power to declare any American an “unlawful combatant” on the say-so of the president alone.

This story will go by the way side in 48 hours or until one of the Kardishans learns to tie shoes or something.   After that America will have something new to offer an opinion on, yet not know anything more than they did, 48 hours ago, or 4 years ago and America will be a little bit less American, congratulations.


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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 1:13 pm

The Kentucky Constitution has not been amended to conform with the SCOTUS precedence. After Kentucky has amended it's Constitution to conform with the SCOTUS decision the Feds can then remove Davis from her office possibly. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The 10th Amendment. Which is being dismantled bit by bit.

Day by day freedom is dismantled.

We used to have a country with a government. Now our government has a country.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 1:43 pm

joemac wrote:
The great thing about our country is that the a belief of religion or atheist view is protected by the 1st Amendment.  Or least it used to be.

Unless you want to run for a certain government office.
There are some states that have on the books laws preventing those who do not believe in "God" from holding office.

Might not hold up in todays court system but they were written long ago during the land of the "free".
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 1:51 pm

joemac wrote:
 Government funded PP kills hundreds of thousands of babies annually and auctions of body parts.

And what if their beliefs allow for it?
How is it harming you?
If their beliefs are wrong God/Allah/Budda etc will deal with them.

Locally our government FORCES Amish people to use electricity against their beliefs.
For their septic systems to protect the health of non-Amish believers.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 1:55 pm

pup wrote:
Why the all out effort to fund and arm Iran? That's what we should be worried about, not some 4 time divorcee adulterous fake Christian in the backwoods of KY.

Very true but you need to realize in the US their are religious groups changing public education.
Not as extreme as Islam but they are forgoing scientific teaching for creationism ideals.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 2:01 pm

Diesel Dan wrote:
joemac wrote:
 Government funded PP kills hundreds of thousands of babies annually and auctions of body parts.

And what if their beliefs allow for it?
How is it harming you?

Harming me?  Not a question of me.  If you or I did a commercial transaction for exchange of body parts, it's illegal.  But if the if a government funded "non-profit" does it it for profit, it's permissible. Can the government compel a person do perform such action?

The greater question would be.  Is there any act of which a person or government compels you to perform that would be unlawful or illegal?  Where are the limits?

Quote :
Locally our government FORCES Amish people to use electricity against their beliefs.
For their septic systems to protect the health of non-Amish believers.

Doesn't mean it's lawful.  Unless it's challenged in lawsuit, the action could go on indefinitely.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 2:18 pm

I'm guessing you didn't go read the Amendments I mentioned or just can't understand what they say.

One, or I guess two have the right to be married and Kim Davis can't deny them that because of her practice of religion. I guess you agree with Sharia law then?

There is a right to be married. whether expressly stated or as one of the rights not enumerated in the US Constitution that have been retained by the people.

My wife pointed out that God will be the one to pass judgement, not Kim Davis. Kim should shove her religious beliefs up her ass where her brains are at.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 2:44 pm

I just cant see how issuing a license has to do with someone's idea of the sanctity of marriage.

They ain't performing the ceremony or being a party that is being married.

To me, all the legal crapola that goes along with being married means nothing to my marriage.

That is between me, my wife and the Big Man upstairs. Not some dumbass county clerk. And no amount of gay, straight, bi, pan, whatthefuckever being married to each other will ever change that.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 2:51 pm

joemac wrote:
Doesn't mean it's lawful.  Unless it's challenged in lawsuit, the action could go on indefinitely.
It was challenged and up held in court.

pup wrote:
That is between me, my wife and the Big Man upstairs. Not some dumbass county clerk.
cheers cheers
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 3:41 pm

Diesel Dan wrote:
It was challenged and up held in court.

Par for the course in our country.  Thus why we now have Obamacare ACA, constant NSA monitoring.  People have never been less free than they are now.


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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 3:43 pm

Very well, it's now meaningless in our country:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - 1st Amendment.

Schools are now implementing prayer rooms for Muslim students to pray during school hours.  Try this as a Christian, sorry.  Obama's promise of "fundamentally transforming" our country is well underway and making good progress. Progressives unite!

Just don't be surprised when they slowly pick away at the other amendments, one's some people might care about.

Good example.  Civil forfeiture.  Government takes assets, no charges, no jury trial.  Toss out the 4th or 5th.  Good luck America.  http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/your-watchdog/2015/09/10/federal-seizure-program-benefits-cops-called-legal-robbery/71995798/

Sadly it won't stop there.


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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 11th 2015, 3:53 pm

The slow boil technique...most won't and don't notice, until it's long past being able to do anything about it.

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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 12th 2015, 10:00 am

joemac wrote:
Diesel Dan wrote:
It was challenged and up held in court.

Par for the course in our country.  

Why is it a bad thing?
It was done for the good of the overall community. We have a ground water contamination issue from failed and/or no proper septic systems. In a nutshell it was ruled that religious beliefs can not cause a public health nuisance. They want old fashioned out houses which are banned in the county.

Amish are just a bunch of hypocrites anyway. The "church" won't let them use electricity at home but it is AOK to use it at the family business, kids can use modern equipment up to a certain age, hence all the tractors are driven by children. Just an inbred cult mentality that shame the future generation into following in their footsteps.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 12th 2015, 10:09 am

I don't know, they pretty much keep to themselves, do their own thing.  Aren't out harming anyone.   Sort of like the Branch Dravidian's at Waco.  Not imposing on anyone.  The outcome there.  Well. If there's a sewage issue, fixit.

On the flip side the EPA can't keep their hands out of a Colorado mine that has been closed since 1922.  Upon inspecting releasing 3 to 5 million gallons of contaminated water laced with heavy metals down the Animas river. EPA is silent on the 500+ fracking chemicals contaminating acquirers all over the country, and the release of methane into water supplies. Government only has issue with things it doesn't control.

Government can't leave anyone or anything alone.  The announced benefits are always good.  The unintended consequences from years of government, more and more government doesn't have a high success record.

We wouldn't even be having this discussion on religion and marriage if the government didn't insert itself into the middle, to license it.  

Government can't help itself.  Back in 1996 under Bill Clinton passed and signed Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).  This defined marriage between a man and a woman, giving states the ability to refuse same sex marriages.  States at the time could support same sex if desired.   The Clinton's as well as other liberals were for it, before they were against it.  They can't make up their mind about anything, the changing factor for them is usually votes, chasing votes. The hacks in Congress wouldn't touch it. Why not just repeal DOMA? Naaa the end around, use the courts to legislate.  Which brings us back to today, government in the middle of everything is the common source of the social calamity and most of the other issues plaguing our country.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 12th 2015, 2:01 pm

Government needs to get the f**k out of the marriage license bulls**t , for all the talk of the confederate flag representing racism marriage licenses exist solely because of racism to make sure whites and blacks could not get married , where are the self righteous race baters on this ?
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 12th 2015, 10:11 pm

joemac wrote:
I don't know, they pretty much keep to themselves, do their own thing.  Aren't out harming anyone.   Sort of like the Branch Dravidian's at Waco.  Not imposing on anyone.  The outcome there.  Well.  If there's a sewage issue, fixit.

Sewage issues had to be fixed...with electricity....against "religious" convictions.

Keep to themselves, do their own thing, not harming anyone so is brainwashing children, forced underage marriages a form of freedom for kids who know nothing else?
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 13th 2015, 12:12 am

Quote :
Keep to themselves, do their own thing, not harming anyone so is brainwashing children, forced underage marriages a form of freedom for kids who know nothing else?

Someone always knows, how to run someone elses life better.  Much like government loves to step in and intervene where people all too easy to concede the responsibility. If what the Amash are doing is illegal, there's an executive and judicial branch that can enforce any of the legal infractions.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 13th 2015, 11:21 am

The Amish can leave any time they want. The pressure of leaving is that you are shunned by the community. I worked with a women who was raised Amish and left. Talk about letting the cat out of the bag, she received a college degree, has an executive position, but in her personal life she is making up for all the fun things she missed as a kid, talk about a wild social life would be an understatement. She is a person that would do anything to help anyone with a problem.

Got off the subject: I can see it necessary to make a community put electricity in to solve a health issue. There are a few Amish that have a small almost outhouse size shed where they keep and use cellphones.

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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 13th 2015, 1:31 pm

TheQuig wrote:
The Amish can leave any time they want. The pressure of leaving is that you are shunned by the community.
Having your family threaten to turn its back on you has to be unbelievable pressure.

Many cults claim their members can leave whenever they want as well.
For what it's worth we have Amish and Mennonites that live on our road.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 13th 2015, 2:08 pm

Until I went to work at Perry Nuclear Plant in Ohio, I didn't realize there were so many Amish and Mennonites living there. I knew the large communities in PA but was unaware of others, a little naive on my part.

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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 14th 2015, 12:23 pm

Quote :
With her voice shaking, she said she decided not to interfere with deputy clerks who will continue to hand out the marriage licenses in Rowan County, but Davis declared they would not be authorized by her and she questioned their validity.

She is pushing her beliefs on others at this point.
There are others in the office willing to do the job she doesn't want to.
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PostSubject: Re: So, what about Kim Davis?   September 15th 2015, 5:48 pm

More like, with her voice shaking from fear of losing her paycheck, she decided not to interfere...

When she assumed office, she lied under oath saying she would adminster her duties according to the US constitution. I bet there aren't many states that would let this same thing play out. Hopefully the state and the infamous one at least pay a nice civil penalty.
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