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PostSubject: Justice--1%er Style   April 15th 2015, 10:45 pm

GM shielded from ignition lawsuits by bankruptcy rule

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/15/news/companies/gm-bankruptcy/index.html
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 1:47 am

We're a nation of laws, not emotion, or specials privileges, unless your a Clinton. It's imperfect. Still far better than any other system. Much less is a few kings making authoritarian decisions.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 4:38 am

That would have been fine if they had went by the laws.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 8:44 am

There are laws for the 1% and Corporate America, and there are laws for the rest of us.

Either way, the rest of us usually get phucked by owners of this "country".
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 9:35 am

Which laws were broken?  There was a bankruptcy and a 363 asset sale that occurred.  The court appointed trustees oversaw and provided the court all findings and the court made a ruling.  If people don't agree with the court ruling, that's fine.  If laws were broken there is criminal statues to deal with it or a civil suite.
People conveniently forget the social benefit liabilities that would be incurred by the states and federal government of hundreds of thousands, some estimated over a million unemployed. This is the only reason Ford's Mulally went to capitol hill with GM and Chrysler. Knowing that if GM and Chrysler survived, Ford would as well. Ford at the same time borrowed $15.9 billion from the Federal Reserve, this line of credit was done in secret and wasn't made public spectacle like GM and Chrysler.

GM's history and the political fodder is the least of our nations issues, yet people hang onto it because that's what they're programmed to do. It's a good political distraction by Republicans, to get on the podium, and tell us once again why they have fiduciary integrity and our best interest at heart, meanwhile how's the debt ceiling working out, I'm sure they'll remain steadfast this time. Later that same day, McCain is working tireless hours, getting weapons and funding to "moderate" rebels in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria. Dropping in another highly paid private mercenary team to go kill more brown people, when they get feed up and want to fight back we call them terrorists and then send in carrier battlegroups to "fight for our freedom". Ignorant American's.

The pentagon on 9/10/01 announces they can't account for $2 trillion. Yet not a whimper or a single thought from anyone in the country. Multiple times since, they've announced losing track of tens of billions here, tens of billions there. They flew $13 billion in freshly printed $100 Ben Franklin's on C130's into Iraq. Lost most of it, paid extortion to Iraq leaders and tribes not to kill us. Over a billion of got swiped and is currently hidden in Jordan. Yet the mindsets from those coming out of their double wides is to hang domestic automakers, then the next day wonder why there's no jobs. Least from GM And Chrysler we get cars. The rest of it we get debt 1000 fold and millions of dead people, including thousands of our own, and tens of thousands missing limbs, disfigured horribly, of which they have to live with the rest of their lives.

GM those bastards.


Last edited by joemac on April 16th 2015, 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 9:53 am

Your GM bias is showing again.

The whole way they rammed the bankruptcy through stunk to hell and back.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/03/27/feds-investigate-gm-for-bankruptcy-fraud-ignore-own-behavior-on-fannie-and-freddie/
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 10:08 am

And people's absorbing and spouting Fox news headlines at nauseum, yelling fuck ya, shows too.

Your right, get rid of the industry we created.  Throw GM, Chrysler and the systemic fallout takes out Ford.  Toss it in file 13.  Hope we all enjoy driving our Honda's and Toyota's to our next job interview hoping for $15 an hour.

People have no idea how thinly our entire country is propped up propped up.

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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 10:27 am

Lets not get dramatic and put words in my mouth.

I don't watch FoxNews, or any news on TV for that matter. If I wanted to hear a pile of idiocy screaming at each other, I'd go to Chucky Cheese.

Phucking people is phucking people, whether its GM, Obama, Bush or the Dahlifuckingllama.

And that's what is happening, they hide behind the same laws they scoffed at during the bankruptcy. GM and the rest of corporate America exists for one reason and one reason only, to separate you from your money by any means possible, lawful or not.

And it's a lot more on the unlawful side these days because people are too damn scared to not have what piss-ant job they do have. And our corporate owned and operated government knows this.

Meanwhile, real people get phucked out of existence and the same assclowns that put GM in the toilet to begin with cash millions upon millions in bonuses.

And the cycle starts over....how many more billions will it be next time?

Doesn't matter, they'll just take your 401k or whatever other retirement you worked decades for to cover it and leave you completely dependent on their ill will.

Hey, on the bright side, there's always that Wal Mart greeter job.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 11:05 am

Maybe it's just an ironic coincidence that you tend to post negative GM articles at about the same pace that Fox news goes on a GM tirade about bailouts.  And continue to hang onto it for years.  Never forget, never move on.  That's not meant to be critical, just an observance of what people tend to post and seem passionate about.

Case in point.  http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/arlington/article17878235.html

$1.2 billion for Arlington.  Real jobs.  Not political fodder.  Thus never a thought or mention by politicians on this, media, or public.  No just hang GM or those that the media has presented to us to hate.  GM just put $861 million into the same location last year for stamping and paint, no mention of that.

Same mindset about 911.  Never forget.  This is the physiological aspect to keep the war on terror, war on drugs or any of these memes ongoing indefinitely.  Leon Panetta did tell us to be prepared for a 30 year war.  Thus the destruction of the country.

Meanwhile every automotive manufacturer got bailed by The US government and Federal Reserve, even foreign ones.  Ford, Toyota, BMW got billions from the Federal Reserve all in secret.  But there's not the same zeal from the public about this.  The media latched onto the public GM spectacle and continues to do so, at any given chance.   Pounded and pounded dead fourteen times over.  The public allows their perceptions to be easily set by others telling them what to be mindful of or passionate.   Its easy to see if they mention it enough with great frequency, it becomes a permeable perception, even though the reality and truth, viewing through a wide unrestricted lens, is vastly different.  They've done it on a whole host of issues and will continue this psychological operation and others like until the people are capable of critical thinking on their own, without asking questions, validating sources, of the deluge that they are spoon feed.

The truth shows in what people come back to and the presentation action, speaks to motivation.  Not necessarily or rarely what they well you.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 11:49 am

This is more about corporate government America phucking regular people than its about GM.

It just happens to be GM doing the phucking this time....but in the end, just like you elude to, all the manufacturers are exactly the same. They all got the bailouts and every single one of them will fight each other to be the first one to break it off in you.

The entire concept of brand loyalty is lost on me. They aren't even loyal to the people who built them, must less a nameless, faceless asshole like me.

Corporate news is out to phuck you too with their lies and agenda. Just watch the mindless drones sucking Hillary's fakery down and spewing it back up like it's pure salvation.

And the only reason GM dumped money into Arlington was for profit, and the tax breaks that came with it. It isn't because they are some benevolent entity creating life, utopia and unicorns. The second Arlington starts costing them money is the same second they pack their shit and head for Mexico to build the exact same trucks they do here.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 12:39 pm

Related to the ignition incidents, bankruptcy protection only captures incidents that happened before 6/10/09. Any incidents that happened on or after 6/10/09 the new GM is liable according to the judge.

The $10 billion ignition switch class action was allowed to continue against new GM company.

It will pay at least $1 million in pain and suffering for all deaths, as well as lost compensation, plus $300,000 to surviving spouses and children. Some individual cases are getting more.

GM has paid out around $600 million in settlements currently (forbes).
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 1:23 pm

Gentlemen, remember we are all friend here. I know topics can get heated, but at the end of the day were still on the same side. Nothing wrong with your opinions, but let's lets not get personal.

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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 2:02 pm

We are cool. We are just Texans. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 3:19 pm

I think Texas needs to be its own country and a Yankee like me can come and live in the north part.

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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 3:40 pm

HA! Hold my beer........ Watch this!
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 4:50 pm

We are in the North part...the more timid, delicate little flowers live around Austin. The rest is pretty much still good though. Except for the inner cities that we've ceded back to Mexico.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 7:46 pm

I've only spent a week in Houston. We were at NASA. The Gulf coast reminded me of home in the summer, only much warmer.

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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 16th 2015, 10:34 pm

GM and Chrysler was the govt picking the winners. I prefer free market where the consumers pick the winners. If all three had gone down then someone would have risen up and taken their place. Too much of my tax money is going to other and failed govt picks like Solyndra.

You cant want govt out of your life and then expect them to bail out companies that make crappy products and are poorly managed.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 17th 2015, 9:30 am

TheQuig wrote:
Gentlemen, remember we are all friend here.
, dang, missed another memo.......
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 17th 2015, 9:39 am

theshyguy wrote:
GM and Chrysler was the govt picking the winners. I prefer free market where the consumers pick the winners. If all three had gone down then someone would have risen up and taken their place. Too much of my tax money is going to other and failed govt picks like Solyndra.

GM and Chrysler weren't winners, Ford, BMW, Toyota and others were the winners.  Case in point, look at all the negativity then and still for GM and Chrysler.  The others are love childs.  There are Ford stickers and shirts that state they did it without tax dollars.  The more correct way to state it, no tax dollars but $15.9 billion from the Fed.  DOE loans of about $5 billion.   The loans the DOE, the Export/Import bank are nothing but free cash flow companies as such get to  They got their cash infusion without the public knowing to float their ships.  GM and Chrysler were   Most people won't touch them because they got money from the treasury.

All of this and the public falls right in line

Quote :
You cant want govt out of your life and then expect them to bail out companies  that make crappy products and are poorly managed.

No one with reasonable minds expected the government to bail out anyone.  The expectation was the investment banks to fund the DIP financing.  But no the caloiusion of government and the elite who run the financial firms lied, packaged up crap mortgages, sold them as AAA investments, shorted them on the back end, lied some more, and pocketed billions in bonuses.  Remember Lloyd Blankfein, "Doing God's work!".

Government was the cause of the collapse, investment backs leveraged 40:1, government pushing lenders to loan money to anyone that can tie their shoes, allowing banks to use banking customer assets on the investment side of their house, allowing the Japanese to purge US auto sales with thousands in built in subsidies on each unit imported via the USD/Yen exchange rate.  When GM And Chrysler went under there weren't any financial institutions with cash to provide DIP financing for the bankruptcy proceeding.  The US had a decision, if it wanted to be in the auto industry or not.  Then the never spoken about unemployment social program liabilities that would fall onto the tax payer.  These liabilities are never in the consideration of context because the American public only understands the headline and does what the media tells them, they're incapable of critical thinking and forming thoughts on their own free will.

No matter which way people shake it, it was nasty, didn't taste well, and wasn't popular.  Can the American public move on?  Likely no.

Amazing how much hate people carry about this, however not a peep when the government is buying tattoo removal machines, paying for abortions, giving tens of billions of foreign aid to countries that hate us annually, lying to us constantly about funding jihad, and the IRS garnishing your tax return because one of your parents now deceased was overpaid.

Case in point the power of media and the shallow American public.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 17th 2015, 9:40 am

TheQuig wrote:
Gentlemen, remember we are all friend here.

Oh we are. I'm having a toast in everyone's honor right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 17th 2015, 9:29 pm

Do you mean 15.9 billion from the Federal Reserve? Same as getting a loan from the bank? Which they paid back. GM did not pay the US govt back. They didn't get a loan, more like a grant.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 17th 2015, 10:19 pm

Getting a cash infusion from the Federal Reserve isn't like getting a loan from a bank. Neither is the Fed buying financial assets. Anyone can get a loan from a bank. Only the elite connected with special ties get access to the Federal Reserve printing machine. And if your not liked, tough titty no bank roll for you.

GM got a loan of which they paid back. The remainder of GM DIP funding was preferred stock from the GM IPO that the US treasury was offered for the initial investment. Then at a later date US Treasury sold the stock.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 10:29 am

Sold at a substantial loss. Like I said Ford paid the loan back, GM paid a smaller loan back, the ipo was a freebie. If I remember correctly GM paid the loan back in order to get a larger fund.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 10:48 am

The US Treasury made the decision when to sell.  Did the Pentagon ever locate where that $2.3 trillion from fiscal year 1999 or the $1.1 trillion from fiscal year 2000 or where the $13 billion in cash that was flown into Baghdad on C130's ended up?

Damn GM. Sad


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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 11:12 am

I'm sure they could have fabricated something. GM (not sure about Chrysler) could have filed Chapter 11 or 13 like normal corporations do. It was thought they couldn't acquire financing to operate during the proceedings, and yet govt found 50 or so billion from TARP funds. BTW, they paid that 7 billion back with more TARP funding, so essentially they actually paid nothing back out of pocket. They got a 45 billion dollar tax credit carried over from old GM. The whole asset sale sham was underhanded, secured creditors were left behind unsecured, pension fund creditors lost all as did stockholders. Anyone who dislikes govt thugs going over the law should hate what happened here. I dislike GM and would never buy one of their products, but the bailout goes beyond this. How could anyone not see how unfair this was to competitors who didn't receive free funding and tax breaks? BTW, Ford emerged more profitable than GM without free cash.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 4:18 pm

GM did complete a Chapter 11 process with 363 sale, moving good assets to the new company.  C13 doesn't apply, that's for individuals.

The hang up with the C11 was there was no investment grade financing available for GM to emerge from bankruptcy.  Lehman no Merrill, no JPM Chase no, BOA no, Citigroup no, GS no.

The issue before the country is that without Debtor in Possession financing, GM And Chrysler do not emerge from C11, it goes to C7 liquidation.  "Someone will come by and pick up the pieces", we're told.  Who?  Who is going to invest tens of billions to pickup GM's assets?  Nobody was, no one had any cash.  All the automakers, all of them were scrounging funds from anywhere they can find them.

Ford borrowed $20+ billion to keep the company afloat just a couple years before 2008.  This same capital wasn't available to GM and Chrysler when they came calling.

This is not a picking sides, no one has to make choice on which side your on, love it or hate it.  Choose one.  It has do to with the country, our economy and millions of jobs, people, families, livelihood.  No one like's the government involvement, however that's what occurred.  

Someone not buying a GM vehicle because of the bailout is anyone's prerogative, however looking at GM vehicles today, many of them are pretty stout in their comparative segments.

This situation was totally avoidable.  For decades the Japanese government and central bank have weakened the Yen purposefully to create an export value industry.  With the Yen trading at 90:1 or less, this is a huge cash subsidy on every unit imported into the US, ranging from $1500 on a cheap economy car, up to $15k on a luxury SUV.  The GM CFO wrote a great white paper on this back about a decade ago.  Our government couldn't care less about the automotive industry really, else it would have done something before the situation became a calamity.  Too many wars to fight I guess.

If this is the worst our government ever mis-appropriates tax payer funds, we'd be immensely better off.  I for one like that GM, Chrysler, and Ford are still here.  Our economy is better they are here today.  Many industry analysts had stated that GM And Chrysler being liquidated would have taken Ford down as well, systemic affect.  They all share the same suppliers and raw material providers.  Today's automotive manufactures aren't so much manufacturers as they are integrators and technology developers.  Just like Boeing, sourcing parts and assemblies for the 787 from over 20 countries.  Japan makes the wings for the 787 with the R&D plans from Boeing.   There's a considerable chain of custody and dependencies that most are unaware in the industry, however is the reality of today's manufacturing.

In a bankruptcy proceeding there are no absolutes.  The only one's crying were the hedge funds who vultured in at the last moment looking to eat any remaining cash of GM's bones.  Sorry the country actually won this time.

Without the Fed propping up Ford with $15.9 billion, Ford is gone as the had already mortgaged everything under the blue logo.  Likely pulling GM And Chrysler with it.  Mark Fields commented, "Perform or they will own us".


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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 4:42 pm

The whole --"Too Big To Fail"--is where we all went wrong. We, the government and the workers, let too much power consolidate with too few. One falls, and we all fall.

We need to start unraveling that rats nest....which will never happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 9:25 pm

Government can't get out of its own way.  Cash for clunkers, another great idea from the government.  What manufacturer benefited the most?  Toyota, $2 billion in tax payer cash went to a foreign company.  We borrow the money from China, to pay a unit incentive to a foreign company, and leave the liability on the US tax payer to get around in paying decades later with interest. Can't make this stuff up.

Then we wonder why the US auto industry is in shambles.
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PostSubject: Re: Justice--1%er Style   April 18th 2015, 11:32 pm

They make a profit on every vehicle they sell. Their downfall is paying out pensions.
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