Mosul library burns

More history being destroyed in the name of religion.
Book burning

This does bother me.
Along with the history that Christianity has wiped off the map over the centuries.

They claim it is for their religion, and want to live in the old times and get away from modern western culture, yet they use modern weapons, vehicles, web sites, and satellite phones. They are just savages.

I am in favor of a nuke, even knowing that innocents will die. The government doesn't want to use these methods, yet in WWII we killed thousands of civilians in bombings in Germany and Japan. We burned entire cities with fire bombings. That was war, this is war. We need an American President, not a defender of Islamic terrorists.

Dust off the B-52s.
Wouldn't mind seeing some footage of an entire squadron on a "carpet bombing" run.

Trying to blame this or anything else on a religion isn't right. These people merely use that as their tool for justification. As previously pointed out, they say they want to live one way yet actively live a different way. People do horrible things every day in the name of all kinds of things.

I am against using nukes in this war. We are not in danger from ISIS as I see it. Nuking them will not stop a domestic terrorist from acting here. All I can see nuking or even carpet bombing achieving is killing a few terrorist and a lot of innocent people. Along with that, turning the world against us. All we should do is the exact opposite Obama is doing and actually support the Kurds. We keep saying we will supply them with weapons but Iran has given them more material support than the US or any western nation has. They are the ones stopping and pushing back ISIS with some weapons dating back to WW2. Baghdad wont supply them, supply them directly. What will the Iraqis do, shoot down one of our supply planes headed to Kurdistan? supply the Kurds and tell them to push them back into Syria and up against Iran. Syria can deal with them and Iran will finish bombing them into the ground. But at least we will cause those two insane countries a little trouble.

theshyguy wrote:

Trying to blame this or anything else on a religion isn't right. These people merely use that as their tool for justification.

That statement covers a whole lot throughout history.

As previously pointed out, they say they want to live one way yet actively live a different way. People do horrible things every day in the name of all kinds of things.

Quote :

All I can see nuking or even carpet bombing achieving is killing a few terrorist and a lot of innocent people.  

Agreed but how many "innocent" people is the question.
I'm torn on what to do really. It took the US military years to gain control of these areas due to resistance from the local populations. When ISIS stormed in they did not resist to the degree and in some cases welcomed them in.


The fast expansion can be blamed on Pres. Obama, IMO.
While I didn't agree on going to Iraq we were already there and the damage was done. Just like the so many people and military advisors warned by giving an exit date it allowed the opposition time to organize and plan for their assault. Now history will show they were right.

We can't simply start dropping nukes and radioactive fallout traveling for thousands of miles across countries and entire regions poisoning everything living, contaminating air, water and soil for hundreds of years.  Stuff like this effects the globe with just one.  The bombs we dropped on Japan were 15 KT and 20 KT.  Now we have them in megatons 10, 20, 50 MT.  Sure we could use tactical units with 10 to 70 tons, at the risk of escalation, once the atom is out of the bag, where does it stop?  Show me yours, I'll show you mines bigger?  

Carpet bombing is going to undoubtedly kill indiscriminately many innocent people, kids, wives, families?  Where's the morality in this?  Where's the humanity?

Question would be that's where it ends?  No more conflict after that?  There's a guarantee it stops cold after this right?  No one is going to come after us after this?  Peace at last?  Or is it possible by killing hundreds of thousands instantly, and thousands of thousands more there might be retaliation?  Retaliation by those who previous to had no desire, but now have a vested interest in vengeance.  That's not hard to rationalize.  No one has to be extreme to come to that conclusion.  Don't forget we've got tens of thousands of them in this country bought on by all our wars and interventionism. No one talks about that. We're getting tens of thousands from Afghanistan, and Iraq currently. Plus any of these countries of which turmoil occurs these refugees are loaded up and distributed around the globe. The USA gets a considerable portion. All of them are refugees right, well vetted right?  What do we expect their response to be when we kill thousands of them?  They arrested three of them yesterday, Comi states they have active cases in all 50 states.  What do we think their response will be?  They'll do nothing?

We might want to challenge the reality that's been put in our laps.  Not sure why we keep going back to the same source, the same well and expecting this time they'll tell us the truth.  All of them have a proven record of lying.  Government and mainstream media as they conclude with government constantly.  As what we're told once again is an all out fabrication.  Without our direct involvement initially, we would not have the situation before us.

Notice how the boogie man has been constantly changing since 911.  911 is the catalyst for all of this with no end in sight.  Panetta has stated be ready for a 30 year war. In the last 14 years it's been one bad guy after another.  Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, Gaddafi, Saddam, Iran, Hezbollah, North Korea, Ukraine/Russia, Alasad, Libya, Mali, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.  What's the big secret that needs protecting in Libya with the CIA there?  Gun running, weapons, supplies, money flowing into this region, trying to pick winners and losers?  Thinking we can discern between the good and the bad, thinking we're so smart, we can't be conned or crossed?  Absolutely we're naive at best. Doing more of the same will change the outcome right?

We might want to think through a strategy that involves thermonuclear weapons as there are other countries that have those, many of which are extremely close to our intended target areas.

Without us being involved both direct, and indirect, much if not all of the terror threats we have front of us would not exist.  Look to a pattern of which this has been allowed to flourish.   We bomb and destroy a country kills hundreds of thousands, Iraq figures from 150k to over a million dead, chaos, power vacuum, and terror flourishes and ensues.  Thus ISIS. This is likely the untold intent, to keep a permanent state of war. Hundreds of billions of dollars is needed to keep the base of our war machine going. Never underestimate the greed and power of money into this equation.

Origins of ISIS


The covert origins of ISIS

I completely agree that we have involved ourselves far too much into other countries issues. Some will say we have to for national interest. ie. it was in our national interests to kick Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. I would agree he needed to be removed but why didn't we let the other ME countries do it? They had the military power and the will but since we and others offered they stepped aside and let us do the heavy lifting. In return we got OBL.

ie. We take out Saddam Hussein in 2003 because of WMD(Reps and Dems both said they were there based on evidence from before Bush so lets not rehash that) and with a wonderful lack of planning, things went to shat at incredible speed. Because we were now the national police/army/govt..etc it was up to us to bring peace but that failed because the Sunnis wanted power back and the Shia wanted revenge. When we FINALLY got the Sunni's onboard with "The Awakening" we along with the Majority of Sunnis tribes drove out Al Queda and peace somewhat settled in. But when we left we left Iran start calling the shots and Al Maliki was a secretarianist(I just created a word) and through that the Sunnis and Baathist created ISIS and now we have lost the Sunnis again. We utterly failed to help the Kurds and still do and they nearly collapsed from such hard attacks from ISIS.

Then when Obama decides he wants to be tough and draw a red line, it gets crossed numerous times and he backs down. I agree that the US shouldn't go around kicking in doors and giving orders but we are a world leader... or were. I disagreed with the war( and that's what it was in Libya no matter what Obama tries to call it) but I was glad he didn't put us as the symbol. He made it a joint effort. But even with that we still had our allies running out of missiles on their ships needing us to resupply them. It shows the lack of preparedness our allies have because they have depended on the US to do the heavy military lifting for so long.

I truly consider Obama a failed president. He came into office saying he wanted to unify and stay with Constitutional powers he taught about while a professor but has managed to divide the American people, Rep and Dems and even the international community more than even Bush was capable of doing. President get a lot of power on the international stage. Traditional and Constitutionally the POTUS run international affairs while Congress handles domestic issues. But Obama has acted the exact opposite. He has gone international as a cheerleader for attention. He bombed the crap out of Libya but failed to follow the Constitution and get permission from Congress. He justified it by saying Libya wasn't a war. He failed to support an internal revolution in Iran by voicing support until after the protests has been forcibly crushed. He draws a red line in Syria and then because of a lack of real integrity he somehow decides this time he wants Congress's authority only to then decide to do nothing when the gets it. He has constant negotiation extensions with Iran while they move closer and closer to the ability to build a bomb as about once a year we find out a new covert nuclear facility used for bomb research or uranium enrichment. While he finally got the guts to do sanctions on them that actually did something he has since quickly backed off them.

He completely fails to do a damn thing about Bengazi. "well it was over by the time we could have gotten any assets there." Well how the hell did you know that when the bullets were still flying? Conflicting reports if people were told to stand down or not. And these are the people already in Bengazi that are supposed to be there for this type of stuff. Hillary Clinton gets off scott-free by asking why their deaths matter now. The video tape was shown to have been BS from the beginning and the entire administration( WH, State Dept, Defense dept, ALL) knew it was. NO ONE actually believes the video had a damned thing to do with it. But he and Clinton and the cronies ALL got away with it.
His "blueprint" of how to fight terrorism in Yemen has completely collapsed and the country is now run by terrorist. Literally, they now control the majority of the country after they force the president their to resign and just the other day finally let him leave his house after months of house arrest.

Ukraine gets invaded and Obama does next to nothing to help expose Russias aggression. Its an open secret he is orchestrating it all. Satellite images showing Russian military vehicles, only the Russian build and either operated or a Russian trained operated could have used the missile system to shot down the civilian jetliner, troops in Crimea and eastern Ukraine coming from the east with Russian accents driving Russian vehicles but not wearing any Russian insignia.

All while domestically he shoves a pork bill for "shovel ready jobs" through Congress and then laughs(literally on camera) about the lack of those jobs actually being there. He is stopped from passing govt run healthcare when the bluest of blue states votes in a Republican so they attack the bill to something else which allows it to pass with fewer votes. All the while the American people opposed it and still do. He says for years he cant change the immigration laws but when he decides he needs some more votes in 2016 he suddenly has the authority to do so ( a new team of lawyers interpretation maybe, IDK). He calls out the SCOTUS at a State of the Union address which is very unpresidential. And also breaking protocol one of them shouts back. He has been successful in labeling the Reps as the "Party of NO" because they were always saying no to his ideas. All the while being shielded from having to say NO to Republicans ideas because Harry Reid never let anything come to a vote in the Senate. If he didn't like it or it would make Obama look bad it didn't matter if it was a Rep or Dem idea, it never got a vote.

Congress didn't pass Cap and Trade so he used the EPA to enhance regulations. A War on Coal is true for this president as well as a War on Oil. He vetos the Keystone XL Pipeline which if you look really isnt that much pipeline since it merely attaches to the already inexistence Keystone Pipeline. Yet he wants the authority to take control of the internet within a few months of first bringing up the idea and the FCC chairman refuses to let the new 300+ pages of regulations be made public before the vote today.

All I can say is Thank God for the judge in Texas to stopping Obamas power grab on immigration. From what I have heard even with an appeal the stop on his actions should last for the majority of his time in office(unless you agree with my barber who thinks he will stay in after 8 years). And we shall see if the Dems own arrogance will stop ACA when its ruled by SCOTUS that the subsidies are unlawful for states that didn't set up their own exchange.

The world is more dangerous than a year ago, more than 2 years ago, I would say it more dangerous than 9/11. Obamas seemingly lack of interest in international affairs has left everyone in far more danger. And unless we reel in the national deficits, the national debt will collapse the economy. As fragile as this "recovery" is, it will all collapse in epic fashion if we have any major international or domestic event. Oil has Gas was the only thing that dug us out of the last collapse in 2006-2007 and its done at least a shot while. Obama has no domestic success or international success to stand on. And with his failures, the USA also fails.

Sorry everyone. I didn't realize it was that long.

Quite the Manifesto...The Shybomber is born.

In selling FEAR FEAR FEAR, TERROR TERROR TERROR, tuning into the terror network we got three of them yesterday.



#1 Uzbekistan, legal US resident, Brooklyn
#2 Kazakhstan, legal US resident, Brooklyn
#3 Uzbekistan, here on expired Visa, Florida

Nothing more than dumb patsies, we brought here, the FBI walks into their group and gens them up with ideas, then conveniently arrests them. The presentation is used to keep the fear and terror mindset a constant for decades to come.

Why are they here? Why do we let them come here? Expired Visa? 911 Hi-jackers, same MO. 14 years later people with expired Visas from countries all over the region of concern are allowed to float all over the country unimpeded by the tens of thousands. Yet we're spending a trillion plus a year with the war machine. 14 years later this problem isn't corrected? Why cause they need it, they need the problem to justify how the threats are compounding.

These are all solvable problems. If there was legitimacy in our speech, and action. We currently have neither.

FBI has cases open in all 50 states. Get ready for more government oversight of you, more liberty lost, while people as such are brought here by the thousands. You can't board a plane without a pat down, but a guy from Uzbekistan allow him to float on an expired Visa. Once you lose the liberty, freedom, you won't get it back. What's the TSA going to require you to do next week to board a plane from Orlando to Dallas? Something more invasive, bet on it.

The Obama Destruction will only accelerate from here til he's gone. He's on a compressed timeline now, completely unaccountable for anything.

Gonna get far, far worse before it gets better, if it ever does.

I have a hunch this well past Obama alone.  It would appear this disease is spread throughout the government and the country. It's a Zombie trance that embraces all government. If it's not the left for all things to comfort and hand outs, it's the right with never ending war and talk tough. But resign when the vote is on the line.

The right held the line on that DHS funding didn't they....

Hey we got the internet reclassified as a utility now, net neutrality boom! Here come the taxes and more supervision. FCC still won't release the 322 pages worth of new rules. It's secret.

I agree, nukes are nothing to take lightly, but offensive is better than defense. When 9/11 happened, I was approached by a friend who at the time was in charge of the terrorism unit with the state police. I was asked if I could do GIS mapping of several large cities in my state and show with the maps how many people would die, would be critically wounded, and how much damage should we expect from a dirty bomb. This was beyond my skills at the time so I gave my contact I had with a professor at a state university. The question is not will it happen, by when and how bad will the effects be when it does happen. It is a forgone conclusion.

Make no mistake, when Iran is capable, they will launch. Germany and Russia both claim the U.S. killed between 200,000 and 500,000 civilians in just the fire bombing of Dresden during WWII. And take into consideration all the other cities in German and Japan, we killed at more than we did by nuking 2 cities in Japan.

Here's an idea, don't let them into the country. If your from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, etc etc...... place on a moratorium on travel inbound and or Visa's for any persons attempting to travel here. If it's that dire, that serious. It's easy to do. Cost minimal, much more effective than anything we've done up to this point. But that's the rub, they don't want to have anything legitimate to solve the problem, then all the need, money, and profit vanishes.

So it will be terror terror terror for years and decades to come.

The situation in WWII was much different. Hitler and the axis powers wanted to control the world with real military capability, air, land, sea. Here we have a small faction, that doesn't have one plane, one boat. They've got only the weapons we give to them, they're not smart, they have no way to do much of anything at all to the US unless we allow and invite them in. We're good on the latter. Most of America too ignorant to care or even assimilate two coherent thoughts about it. Thus the course direction for the US continues till the country succumbs to it's own orchestrated demise. Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

theshyguy wrote:

Ukraine gets invaded and Obama does next to nothing to help expose Russias aggression. Its an open secret he is orchestrating it all. Satellite images showing Russian military vehicles, only the Russian build and either operated or a Russian trained operated could have used the missile system to shot down the civilian jetliner, troops in Crimea and eastern Ukraine coming from the east with Russian accents driving Russian vehicles but not wearing any Russian insignia.

Russian aggression.  How many countries have they invaded in the last 15 years, now compare to the US.

Some fuzzy 500 mile in the air satellite shot doesn't qualify as definitive prove of Russian involvement.  From the satellite shot it could be anyone's mechanized units on the ground.   Just as the US Russia, sells their military gear including mechanized units to countries around the globe. Russian accents, realize Ukraine was a Soviet Union republic until 1991. A third of the entire country today still speaks Russian.  The entire eastern portion of Ukraine is still heavy ethic Russian.  Speaking Russian in Ukraine is common.  Now hearing English accents by mercenaries running up and down streets is unusual, which is documented.  This gives us yet again clues of who's involved.  The fingers once again point at the US.  George Soro's has been funneling hundreds of millions into NGO's in Ukraine.  The US state department has put in multiple billions, paying for the mercenaries, or as publically stated humanitarian relief.  Which reminds me, how's that humanitarian relief we gave Libya going?  It's now a failed state.

What the MSM has told us about Ukraine and Russia's involvement is an all out fabrication.  This is what they want you to believe.  Not what has really occurred.  If Russia was truly engaged in Ukraine the Ukrainian army wouldn't last a week.  What's Russia's motive for the supposed aggression?  No one has any answers because there are none, story isn't true.  Ukraine is under treaty however to provide protection of the ethic Russian population, these are the people that have been getting fire bombed at will by the Ukrainian army.

https://pickupownersgroup.forumotion.com/t1199-us-country-medeling

joemac wrote:

Here's an idea, don't let them into the country.  If your from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, etc etc...... place on a moratorium on travel inbound and or Visa's for any persons attempting to travel here.  If it's that dire, that serious.  It's easy to do.  Cost minimal, much more effective than anything we've done up to this point.  But that's the rub, they don't want to have anything legitimate to solve the problem, then all the need, money, and profit vanishes.

So it will be terror terror terror for years and decades to come.  

The situation in WWII was much different.  Hitler and the axis powers wanted to control the world with real military capability, air, land, sea.  Here we have a small faction, that doesn't have one plane, one boat.  They've got only the weapons we give to them, they're not smart, they have no way to do much of anything at all to the US unless we allow and invite them in.  We're good on the latter.  Most of America too ignorant to care or even assimilate two coherent thoughts about it.  Thus the course direction for the US continues till the country succumbs to it's own orchestrated demise.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.

What worries me even more at times is the power we have given to Homeland Security. I can see them as an equal threat to us.

joemac wrote:

 Here we have a small faction, that doesn't have one plane, one boat.  They've got only the weapons we give to them, they're not smart, they have no way to do much of anything at all to the US unless we allow and invite them in.

I think you are under estimating this movement. If left unchecked they will acquire more advanced equipment one way or another. They will continue to over run military installations of lesser countries, buy stuff from the black market and other anti-western countries will flat out supply them with equipment.

The other way to spell ISIS is IRAN.

Diesel Dan wrote:

I think you are under estimating this movement. If left unchecked they will acquire more advanced equipment one way or another. They will continue to over run military installations of lesser countries, buy stuff from the black market and other anti-western countries will flat out supply them with equipment.

Black market?  They're driving around in what we gave them.  Hummvees, F250's, AK's and a set of monkey bars.  When they acquire a B2 bomber and an aircraft carrier battle group let's check back.  

There's citizens in Texas that have more military and tactical capability, even after the CIA gave them everything, than ISIS will ever possess.  

We created and enable ISIS, rather obvious.













Can't believe everything you hear on Fox.  If not for us they would have nothing.  http://www.ibtimes.co.in/isis-takes-dozens-captured-us-humvees-tanks-syria-iraq-602939

155mm Howitzers, M1A1 Abrams, they've got everything any Army would love to have. Thank you American tax payer for not paying attention and continuing the fund ISIS. The only portion America hears about is the terror terror terror side. They never hear nor care that we create the situations that are presented as a problem. Ignorant Americans.

We indirectly gave it to them. We sold/gave it to the Iraqis and then they threw it all down or ran away from it letting whoever wanted it to pick it up or drive it off. ISIS has a lot of our hardware and Obama wont give the same to the Kurds is just asinine in my opinion. They are the best force we have over there and we don't seem to want to do much of anything to help them.

We created the environment for a lot of this stuff by our constant meddling. But the Saudis and Iranians, al Malaki's and those types are the ones that really created these people.

I agree that we also contributed to the Ukrainian issue. But you cant honestly tell me that Russia isn't sending in help for the rebels.

Giving Muslims weapons to help kill other Muslims is nothing but a lose-lose situation. Ultimately those weapons will literally return to fire back upon the giver. The Muslim faith (if you want to call it that) has an agenda to abolish anyone who disagrees with their beliefs. They are not our allies! Period!

Green license plates, they must be in Vermont now. Although they do have the Abrams tank, they don't have all the high tech systems in them. They are still the best in the field there right now.

McCain and Graham gave it to the "Freedom fighters" in Syria. We're so brazen, we can't be conned.   ISIS originated from the Free Syrian Army, we gave weapons, training and money too these people.  Well sourced well documented.  Rand Paul warned of such.  No one listened.  Came true.   Its history now.  Bin Laden did the same.  Every time we do such, there's blow back.

We abandoned and left armories worth of equipment in Iraq knowing we'd have to fight it later publically.

No matter the how, it's happened, it's our gear.  We're ignorant for thinking we can country build.  We can't even maintain our own country..  How's Libya working out for us?  Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen.  We can't help ourselves.  Where's our track record of success?  We have none.

We put Saddam into power, we take him out, we put Malaki into power, he's gone.  We funded Bin Laden against the Russians, how'd that work out for us.  

Here's a hint.  Stay out to begin with, we're much better off.  Defense profits would take a hit.  Screw that.  Let's meddle some more, can't have those companies miss out on any war profiting at the expense of the US tax payer.

Would we expect Russia to let the Russia ethic population in eastern Ukraine, country of which directly boarders Russia, to simply let the new US installed Ukraniane government kill thousands of ethic Russians without a response?  There's a treaty in place the requires Ukraine to protect the Russian ethic population.  They haven't done so, Russia will act and have.  Russia however is not the cause nor originated the coup.  Curious of our reaction should the situation be similar?  December 7 1941, Japan attacks Hawaii, even though Hawaii wasn't part of the union until 1959.  

The catalyst however has not been Russia, no matter how many times Fox states it.  Doesn't make it true.   Ukraine uprising has got US covert action finger prints all over it, well documented.   US corporate interests are already licking their chops to get into Ukraine.  Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden among others can't wait until US "interests" take over.  http://www.globalresearch.ca/company-in-which-us-vice-president-joe-bidens-son-is-director-prepares-to-drill-shale-gas-in-east-ukraine/5393403 We're going to rape them for every dollar we can extract.  Ohhh Russian aggression, Putin, Putian, terror terror.

American's are so absolutely purposefully misinformed it's pathetic.

The Kurds see themselves as Kurds first and Muslims somewhere after that. Now I'm speaking mainly about the Iraqi Kurds in Kurdistan. There are Kurds based in Turkey, Syria and Iran that are somewhat different. But you look at the Kurds in northern Iraq and about all they want is to be left alone and to handle their own issues. While the rest of Iraq was in blood and tears, Kurdistan was having relative peace and economic prosperity. Seems like arming them would be a win-win. They get to go back to having stability within their fuzzy borders( except Kirkuk, that's going to be a mess) and we keep our people out of the fight.

The Christians had their reformation several hundred years ago, and with the exception of Ireland for the most part realized the infighting of differences of belief could be handled peacefully. Until the Muslim world goes through this same type reformation, they will be at war with themselves and the rest of the world.
The Kurds need us and are weapons now, they can't wait for a new president.

Muslims can't do it because of their founders beliefs and his instruction manual. Christians had a true prophet, meaning he didn't make unfounded predictions that never came to be. His instructions were to love your enemy, not kill them. Completely different peoples. The only parallel between them is they both can be traced to the same father, Abraham. Their differences started immediately, and the founder of the Muslim peoples was cast out. Wanna stop being a Christian, no problem. Wanna stop being a Muslim, prepare to be killed. Now, how can they reform?

In the beginning Islam was very close to the Jewish religion when first started. Mohammad used to go to the temples and have lengthy discussions with the Jewish scholars. After a while Mohammad disagreed to the extend that he formed his own opinions on Allah. The Koran list the same people that were in the old testament in its early stages. It was only later in life, after being driven out of his home town where the people saw him as what he really was and that was not a profit of God, but a man driven by his own greed for power. Mohammad goes directly against what he first started to preach.

....
If you destroy history and if you hide history and
if you pretend history never happened,
did history happen?

It lists the same people with some mistakes because he had heard the stories, likely he was illiterate. But some of his teachings (the sun sinks into a murky lake) are ridiculous. No one with an open mind can be a follower.

Truth wrote:

No one with an open mind can be a follower.

Now THAT fits your user name!